Episode 99 - Our scicomm highs and lows - with the UniMelbSciComm teaching team

Transcript

Jen (00:00:17)

Hello, everybody. I am absolutely thrilled to welcome you to another episode of Let's Talk SciComm, one of my very very favorite places to hang out.

Because not only am I joined by my very favorite podcast co-host Michael today. But Michael, we're joined by a whole gang of people today. How good is that?

Michael (00:00:38)

Woo-hoo! Yeah, we have the whole gang here today for episode 99, a very special episode. The whole science communication teaching team.

What I'm really excited about is what we're going to do is we're going to pitch lowlights and highlights that we've had and have a little bit of an informal chat about them, but we haven't actually told each other what we're going to be talking about.

So I'm going to get my notebook out because I'm sure I'm gonna be learning lots from all of your experiences.

Jen (00:01:06)

So I think you probably will recognise everybody's voices. Let's bring you in one by one.

First of all, to our very very beloved Linden, Dr. Linden Ashcroft.
Welcome back, Linden.

Linden (00:01:20)

Hello. Hi, Jen. Hi, Michael. This is great. We haven't told each other what we're going to be talking about.

Good science communication modeling. Let's just give it a go.

I'm excited. I'm very happy to be here.
Congratulations on making it to 99 episodes.

Jen (00:01:36)

Thank you.

So you'll recognise Linden's voice from multiple episodes. We've talked about Linden's work as a communicator of climate change science. Linden joined us for an episode about editing.

As a whole group, we talked about time management once. I can't remember.

You've done lots of episodes, Linden, I'm sure.

Linden (00:01:54)

I'm hanging around.

Jen (00:01:53)

So go back and listen to our back catalog.

Yeah, she's hanging around.

Next, let's bring back our wonderful Dr. Catriona Nguyen-Robertson.
Hello, Cat, my friend.

Catriona (00:02:05)

Hello, 99 episodes. How exciting!

Jen (00:02:09)

We're very excited.

And Cat, you have joined us for episodes obviously about your own work, communicating in a million ways to so many different people, but specifically you've joined us to talk about short talks like 3MT and FameLab.

And you've talked about your singing about science and all sorts of things. So I'm guessing everyone's going to want some music out of you today Cat, no pressure.

Catriona (00:02:32)

Well, no pressure at all.

Jen (00:02:37)

And the final member of our teaching team who has joined us for such important topics as how to talk about aliens, as well as making videos about science and all sorts of things is Dr. Graham Phillips. Hello, wonderful Graham.

Graham (00:02:51)

Hello. Gee, I should have brought a birthday cake along or something like that, shouldn't I? For 99 episodes?

But anyway, hopefully you're not going to ask me to sing. There's no music expected from me, I'm hoping.

Jen (00:03:03)

Yeah, maybe that could be your lowlight, Graham. Is that your lowlight?

Graham (00:03:06)

It would become, exactly.
That would become my new low light for the 199th episode.

Michael (00:03:13)

Yeah, you haven't had any lowlights in your life so far, so you're just going to create one live.
Oh well, it's not live. It's prerecorded.

Linden (00:03:21)

That's dedication.
That's real dedication, Graham.

Graham (00:03:24)

If only that were true. I had trouble selecting a lowlight.
There's so many of them, but anyway.

Jen (00:03:30)

Well, Graham, I think we should start with you then.

So we just thought, you know, we are all very positive people. But we did think it would be useful to talk about some of our less successful or enjoyable or favorable experiences in communicating about science, 'cause that's how we all learn, right? You don't learn by doing things brilliantly.

So Graham, are you happy to kick us off? Tell us about a low experience in your career?

Graham (00:03:54)

Look, as I said, I've got quite a few to choose from.

But look, I've picked this particular one because for me, it was a real learning experience. And I reckon for other people, it would be as well.

And it was, I'd been with the ABC for a long time, making television programs. I left for a few years and went off and set up a few journalism courses at uni and did a few different things.

And then I came back and there were a whole lot of different people there, new managers, new everyone. And so no one... I mean, they sort of knew me from being on TV, but they didn't know how I worked or what kind of work I did.

So they sent me off on the first job. This is it, the big, I was only on a short-term contract. This was the big test to see if I was any good. Went off to America to film, you know, four weeks worth of stories. And I knew I was on the spot for this, wanted to do my best job.

And at the end of day one, the lights crashed. Like the box that converted all the American electricity and allowed our lights to work, it broke. And it was going to be out of action for a week and a half.

Jen (00:04:51)

Oh no.

Graham (00:04:53)

So I thought, That's it, I'm gone, you know?

So, and if you make television, lighting is really important. And, you know, you're filming indoors, you don't have lights. It makes a very dull viewing.

So I thought, That's it. You know, I got back and thought, Oh well, it was fun while it lasted, but I'm a goner.

But it was the exact opposite. I was so impressed that I still could make things work despite this most fundamental thing going wrong and what I was doing, that had the opposite effect. I suddenly got all this credit and you know, was back at the ABC full strength.

So I just think, for me, it was a surprise. It was that, you know, when things, it's a classic thing I guess they say. You know, when things go wrong, there's opportunities there. And for me, without knowing it, it very much was.

Michael (00:05:38)

That's great. Did you just?

Graham (00:05:40)

I can give you plenty of lows that I'm not sure that I learned that much from, but let's, we won't focus on those.

Linden (00:05:48)

I've got a low that follows on from that a bit, in that it was also about TV, but it was something that I could control.

So, you know, it's quite... my career is not as extensive as Graham's, but I've done a few different things on TV and radio and writing and stuff. And so I also had a collection of lowlights to choose from.

But the one that I wanted to talk about was, I also learned a lot from it, but not in a way that got me praise, I wouldn't say like Graham's.

This was an interview that I did for a journalist from the US. Journalists from the US had come over to talk to people after the bushfires in 2019, 2020. And I'd done a bit of media around that. And so somebody contacted me and said, "Can you come into the studio and talk to this journo?"

And I thought, Yeah, I can do that. I was not long back from maternity leave and I wanted to get myself back in the game and kind of prove myself. And I thought, Yeah, I can do it. I'm perky. I can talk about... This guy's from America. He's not going to know about Australian stuff. I can talk about Australian climate. I can talk about climate change. I can talk about bushfires. Yeah, it'll be fine. No worries, I'll be great.Washed my hair, all the things that you're supposed to do before you go on TV. It's mainly just washing my hair.

Anyway, I got to the studios thinking, I'm going to be the person who'll be able to talk to all of that stuff. But I didn't really prepare for this particular journalist. I didn't do enough reading into who they were and how much detail they go into. And I didn't ask enough questions of the organisers about who else was going to be there.

And the person who was there before me, she was amazing. She had all her answers locked and loaded. She knew everything that I knew, but she had washed her hair and done her makeup and she was wearing a blazer. And she was just so good. She was so incredibly professional that it blew all of the wind out of my sails. And I just completely lost confidence.

I thought, What am I doing here? I don't know what I'm doing. I've just come back from leave. I'm not organised. And I completely fell apart. My interview was terrible. I ‘ummed’ and I ‘ahhed’ and I blathered along and I used lots of technical terms.

And in the end, you know, Graham always talks about people who he interviews that don't make it to the final cut because they just waffle on too much. I was that person. I only made a tiny little part of the final story.

And I was so disappointed because I knew what I had done. I knew that I didn't prepare. I just sort of assumed that I could wing it, but forgotten that I was a bit rusty and that you really do need to prepare.

And I think about that experience when I now go to do other things. And I think I can't rest on my laurels just 'cause I've done a bit of stuff.

You still need to be prepared. You still need to do your homework.

And yeah, it was a lowlight, but I did learn a lot from that experience. Oh, it feels a bit, I feel a bit embarrassed even talking about it.

Graham (00:08:43)

Oh that's, I mean...

Jen (00:08:43)

I was going to say, Linden, do you still kind of cringe about it when you think about it?

Or have you got to the point of being kind to yourself and saying like, you know, Often you can wing it. You're extraordinary at communicating.

Like maybe you were just tired and you'd just come back from maternity leave and at least you learnt from it.

So I hope you can not cringe too much when you think about it now.

Linden (00:09:02)

I can be kind to myself definitely, particularly given the stage of life that I was in. And I also know that... It also gives me comfort that everybody has an off day. You know, you're not going to nail every single one.

And I kind of think I'm accumulating enough experience now that every time I do a less than wonderful job, then I can have another opportunity, I think?

And what I also did was I reached out to the journalist and said, "Look, you didn't get me on my best day. If you've got any additional feedback for me to improve for next time, that would be really great". And that was something brave that I did that I was proud of as well.

So it wasn't all doom and gloom, but I do still cringe a bit talking about it. I don't know Graham, whether you think that's a good idea or not?

Graham (00:09:49)

Yeah and oh look I was thinking Linden, I've done exactly the same thing as you as well.

And I think, it's always that fine line between you can wing it, of course you can. But you've got to prepare a bit and sometimes you under-prepare 'cause you're not you know, expecting what you'll get. So no, I've been there, but yeah.

Jen (00:10:06)

I think we all have.

Graham (00:10:06 )

All part of the fun of communication. Yeah.

Catriona (00:10:09)

I just think we have to tell ourselves to trust your craft. Like all of us are communicators and we can do it. And I guess sometimes we have better times that we communicate and not as great times that we communicate. But like our craft is solid, I reckon.

Jen (00:10:25)

Yeah, I think yes, agreed. But Linden, I can totally relate.

I think my lowlight is sort of very similar to yours, but with the added factor of I just think to do what we do well, you have to get enough sleep.

So my story is similar in that it was MCing an event. It was a couple of years ago. I mean, it wasn't a disaster, it was fine. But I rocked up probably not quite well enough prepared. But the biggest downfall for me wasn't the lack of preparation. It was just that I was absolutely exhausted.

I tried to do too many things that week. I'd said yes to too many things. I had a lot of commitments. I was feeling very overwhelmed and overloaded. And you know, because you've said yes, of course you feel like you have to turn up and do it, and you probably do. It's not really very good to at the last minute say, "Look, I'm really sorry. I've overcommitted this week. I don't think I can MC this event for you."

But I just remember sitting there on that stage and just thinking, "I can barely even listen to you. Like, how am I going to facilitate an engaging, thoughtful discussion between these amazing experts when I can barely comprehend what you're even talking about?"

'Cause you know, a good MC is listening really carefully, is synthesising great questions based on what you, the ideas you brought and the goal of the event, which you've got from the organisers, and is taking on what the people are saying. And you're looking for synergies. You're looking for ways to bring different people into comments. You know, like it's a very dynamic thing and done well, it's a huge thrill and it's fabulous. But you just have to be well-rested.

I... For me personally anyway. You know, when I was younger, I could get away with less sleep. But at the stage I'm at now, I just can't do that stuff well if I'm tired.

So my lowlight was sort of sitting there, just thinking, I don't actually think I can pull this off. You're all just been talking, but I've barely listened. I don't know what you've said. I don't know what the hell next question I'm going to ask. Can I please leave now?So my learning is just, you can't do too much of this stuff and you have to get enough sleep. Yeah.

Linden, are you?...

Linden (00:12:33)

So how has that manifested then Jen, in terms of your prioritisation?

Does it mean that you have been able to say no to more things or you've just had to, I don't know, make a count in your calendar or push the starts and ends of your days so you don't end up over-committing and you can get enough sleep?

Jen (00:12:58)

Two things.

One, I now don't work at night at all, really ever. I'm a natural morning person. I have a very strong body clock. If I'm working at night, then I've absolutely hit panic over a deadline. It basically never happens. So I go to bed really early and work early in the morning if I need extra work time.

And the other thing is I just pay a lot more attention to an overview of my calendar. So rather than just looking at one particular day and saying, Oh yeah, I'm free that day, no worries. I'd love to do that shiny, fun thing. I now don't say yes to anything until I've looked at the whole week and got a sense of what's this whole week looking like. And if there's already a couple of nighttime events or extra things on top of normal working and teaching and stuff, then I will generally say no.

So yeah, it's changed my approach to how I manage my calendar, which is good.

Jen (00:13:48)

Cat, you've been nodding along.
What's been your low experience that you'd like to share with us?

Catriona (00:13:56)

Well, before I jump into that, I agree in terms of like thinking about how to ensure that I don't overcommit, like consider what do I say no to? It's still a work in progress, but I think my lowlight kind of ties in with this.

I have mentioned it in the podcast episode where we were talking about short talks and giving short talks. I mentioned my terrible three-minute thesis story. So I'd overcommitted myself and decided to participate in the Three-Minute Thesis competition for my school, the School of Biomedical Sciences.

And I just sort of scrambled something together and did not really prepare. And something like a three-minute thesis, you kind of have to know what you're going to say. And so I'd prepared a script, but I was tired. I was trying to cram it in overnight. So that kind of ties into your story Jen, of like you know, being sleep deprived and trying to do things.

But also the room wasn't set out the way that I expected it to be. I wanted to stand on either side of the screen, but there were two screens in the room, so I couldn't just stand in front of one. And so the things that I'd never considered about doing a presentation, like the actual layout of a venue and the timing and things like that were things that I definitely learned from that.

'Cause I stood up there and I had, I just completely blanked and I froze and I had no idea what to say, how to start. In the end, I got a few sentences out just saying, "This is my work". But it was definitely not my three minute thesis.

It didn't have like a catchy hook. I think I may have given a statistic of like how many people die of TB or something, tuberculosis.

And you know, that's a big thing. It is the top infectious killer worldwide. So that's a bit of a hook. But yeah, I probably got a few sentences out at most. So I was just mortified.

Jen (00:06:04)

Oh Cat.

Linden (00:16:07)

Oh Cat, that makes my heart drop just hearing that.

Jen (00:16:10)

Me too.

Linden (00:16:11)

I've been there.

Jen (00:16:11)

Me too.

Graham (00:16:12)

If you've recovered Cat, did you, like was it?

Catriona (00:16:14)

Did I recover?
Well, well...

Graham (00:16:14)

Like during the talk, could you? Like once you'd opened up like that, could you find a way to think, "Oh my God, I've got to go and go ahead". Or did you run off the stage and hide under a blanket?

Catriona (00:16:26)

I didn't run off the stage. I did stay there for the three minutes and I did like say several sentences.

So I kind of like got into it. But it yeah, wasn't exactly a story. Like it wasn't a good talk. So I would say that's probably the worst talk I've ever given.

But I was really worried about how that would impact me the following day when I was going to compete in the university-wide Three-Minute Thesis competition. 'Cause I thought I've just frozen. Am I going to remember it tomorrow sort of thing?

And I didn't progress, but I did it. I did the three minutes. And so I was just really proud of myself for that the next day, like actually just getting through it.

Linden (00:17:10)

Oh, well done.

Jen (00:17:10)

That's an extraordinary comeback.

Michael (00:17:10)

Great job.
Yeah.

Jen (00:17:12)

It's incredible. I just... Yeah.

Michael (00:17:15)

And even getting through, like said managing to get through some of your talk on the day when you froze.

And I would imagine that's a very difficult thing to do. You probably just want to leave, but I also imagine it might be something that you're you know, you're thankful for that you say, "Well, you know, at least I kind of got through it."

And that probably you know, helps with the next time you have to do it.

Catriona (00:17:37)

Yeah, yeah.
And now I try to not memorise stuff so much.

Linden (00:17:43)

Yeah, so you can pivot.
If you do freeze, you've got the general story in your brain rather than the exact words.

Michael (00:17:49)

It's good advice. And you know, the stress of those competitions is quite extreme and it's very interesting actually, you know, what it can do to your body.

The lowlight that I have relates to a presentation competition at a conference. So this is a big European conference in exercise and sports science.

I had done loads of practice in the lead up to it. And actually the first time I practiced, it was terrible. But you know, I really got a polished talk together.

And there's different rounds at the conference. Like you present like a couple of different times. And I got through to you know, the finals, which is like really the pinnacle of the conference. They have it right on the last day and it's in front of everyone.

It's you know, like a kind of a keynote idea where everyone goes to watch that. And there's you know, lots of prize money up for grabs as well. So I think it was like 5000 Euro or something for the top prize.

Jen (00:18:51)

That's decent.

Michael (00:18:53)

So. And then, you know, everyone in your field is there and it's just, yeah, it's just a lot.

So I think you know, a couple of things that happened were in the heats, I answered some questions well.

And then when I got through to the finals, I delivered my talk. I was super nervous, way more nervous than the heats because I was up on stage. There was bright lights shining in my face.

And the questions were like much longer. And the people had, there was like a panel of people and they had already thought about their questions beforehand.

I couldn't see the person asking the questions. And yeah, I kind of froze in the question time. I babbled through the answers. You know, I had practiced the talk. I hadn't really practiced answering questions under so much stress.

My parents were in the audience. The conference was in Dublin. I was even practicing with my parents.

You know, I'd focused so much on this, on this you know, the competition. I couldn't believe I got through to the finals. I think I came third overall, but the most disappointing part of it and the most crushing part of all of it was that that all occurred on the day which was my Dad's birthday.

And you know, he was in there in the conference with me. I hadn't said happy birthday to him. And I didn't realise until afterwards someone had reminded me and I just felt so bad that I'd focused so much on myself.

And I was just thinking, you know, I want to do really well in this competition. I'd spent so much time with my Dad practicing. I got them into the conference. I think I might've snuck them in. Don't tell anyone.

Catriona (00:20:43)

That was your birthday present.

Michael (00:20:46)

They were in the audience. They were just there supporting me.

And yeah, it was my dad's birthday and I just completely forgot. And I just felt like a terrible son. And I don't know what my take home lesson from that is.

You know, maybe it's just about, there's more to life than you know, work. And you can build up situations so much that maybe they can blind you to other things that are important.

And yeah, I just never want to do that again. But it was just a really kind of horrible feeling. And it was kind of like you know, it's an anti-climax. Like you finish a big event like that and there's always an anti-climax.

But just on top of that was just, I completely forgot about my Dad's birthday. And yeah, it was just crushing.

Linden (00:21:31)

When did you remember, Michael?

Michael (00:21:34)

I think it might've been, I think my Mum might've reminded me after that we went out for dinner to like celebrate. Oh, it's terrible. So bad.

We went out to dinner to celebrate me coming third. And it was all about like me. And then maybe my Mum said, "It'd be nice if you said happy birthday to your Dad now". Or you know, buy him a drink.

And I was just like, "No, you're so right. If this is today, oh no". And I just felt like, I just felt quite selfish. And I mean, apologised like a million times.

Catriona (00:22:10)

I'm sure your Dad understood it was stressful.

Linden (00:22:13)

Yeah, but also like chasing the, you were so stressed about the presentation.

And I think we can all probably relate to the kind of dopamine rush of doing something like standing up and giving a talk and how kind of addictive that can be.

And like you say, Michael, that comedown sometimes has a side of, Oh, am I being really self-focused here? Like giving these talks and doing this stuff.And then to have that additional, Oh god, I've got my Dad's birthday.

Aww, my heart's breaking for you.

Michael (00:22:43)

Yeah.

Linden (00:22:44)

I'm sure he forgave you though.

Michael (00:22:44)

Yeah, yeah. It's all good now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No I mean, they completely understand. They're so great.

And yeah, I just, I guess the take-home lesson is there's more to life outside of work. Maybe don't build up things in your mind so much that they blind you to other things. So yeah.

Jen (00:23:02)

I feel like there are definitely some common threads here around getting our priorities right, taking care of ourselves, forgiving ourselves when things don't go well. And yeah, maybe just not taking it all so seriously. Yeah.

Isn't it wonderful that we can all talk so candidly about times that actually we feel somewhat mortified about? I think that's a sign of being a well-evolved human being, right?

Michael (00:23:28)

Yeah.

Linden (00:23:28)

Definitely.

Jen (00:23:31)

We don't have tons of time left, but I do think it'd be really nice if everyone had the chance to talk really briefly about the flip side and a highlight, something where you felt good about what you did. It was successful. You feel proud of it. You learned something positive.

Does anyone feel like jumping in with a highlight? Graham's hand went straight up in our little conference call here. Over to you, Graham.

Graham (00:23:52)

Well, only 'cause it's kind of relevant to what we're talking about now.

And like I've always been terrified of public speaking. And people find that hard to believe because you know, I spent my career on television, but that's different.

At school, I would never get up in front of a class and I've dreaded being in front of audiences you know, most of my life. But of course, I got thrust into that position in my job of having to do it.

And I just pushed through and got over and over, just kind of retrained my brain that there's nothing to be worried about here.

And I guess for me, a really big highlight for me and it's only a personal one really is I remember doing a gig at the Sydney Opera House.

I didn't quite know how big the big room at the Sydney Opera House was. I'd never been in there. I walked out onto the stage expecting a few hundred people and there were like 2000 people in the audience.

And enjoying it. Interacting with the audience, you know, not feeling stressed at any stage during the whole thing, at the end feeling really good. And I thought, Wow, I just cannot believe I've come so far to be able to do that, that I can enjoy the experience.

And all it was was just that retraining of the brain, which I thought was remarkable.

Michael (00:25:00)

And I didn't know you could sing opera, Graham.

Jen (00:25:00)

Oh that's amazing, Graham.

Graham (00:25:03)

There you go. Well, that's another...

Do you want me to give it a go now?

Catriona (00:25:07)

Absolutely.
But yeah, I loved that for you.

Linden (00:25:08)

Now the lowlight begins.

No, we'd love to hear it, Graham. That sounds great.

Graham (00:25:11)

You would not. You would not.

Linden (00:25:16)

I think my highlight also is something that as a scientist, I've been trained to dread. But when I started doing it, I realised how much I enjoyed it personally.

And that's kind of sharing a bit of my emotional side. I think the pieces of communication that I've done that have led to other activities. To me, a successful piece of communication that I do is always good bang for buck.

If I write something that then ends up doing some radio interviews or it's republished by other people. Then I think, Oh, that was time well spent because it's really getting out there and it's leading onto other things.

And I've written a few articles that have been quite personal to me about experiences that I've had or thoughts that I've had. Which as a scientist, we're kind of trained not to do. We're trained to be objective. We're not trained to put our emotions into the story. But we also know that putting the emotions and putting the people in the story are a key part of getting other people to engage with that story.

And I remember I wrote a letter to my future self once. This was a part of an art project where climate scientists were invited to write about how they feel. And I kind of wrote about how I felt and that was shared somewhere and it was picked up by quite a few places, including a book about how to make positive change and how to work together to avoid the worst of climate change.

And that process was really cathartic for me to write the letter. It wasn't a stress or a strain or a struggle. It just flew out of me really quickly.

And then to have it be picked up by other people, I thought, Oh, that just feels really nice. You know, it wasn't about getting a million clicks or likes or whatever. I just thought I got to speak my truth and then other people were interested in reading it. And that was a really nice thing to experience.

Jen (00:27:01)

And what a gift. I mean, what a gift to share that side of being a scientist with the world. We do what we do 'cause we care about it, but we don't always get to show that. So yeah, that's beautiful, Linden.

Cat, what's your highlight for us?

Catriona (00:27:18)

I would say probably shows that I do in the Lightning Theatre at ScienceWorks. I do perform shows in different venues, but I think the Lightning Theatre is where I have 118 people max. And I feel like sometimes I can genuinely connect with them.

I'm not saying all of the shows are my highlights, but there are certainly shows where I walk away feeling like I've really connected with them and I've given them a show where I you know, I've perhaps given them extra details or woven in fun facts based on the things that they were asking or the things that they were saying during the show, so I've like tailored it to them.

Plus in the Lightning Theatre, you have lightning and all sorts of fun demos. So I feel like it's a mix of you know, me being able to do really flashy things and I'm still on show and I'm in charge, I'm the boss. But I really love the shows that I do where the audience is kind of guiding me as to what I'm showing them and how I'm showing them.

And then if people walk away saying like, oh like, especially little kids, like, "Oh, that was amazing." Or like, "I want to do that. I want to be a scientist. I want to learn more about lightning". Like, I'm like, "I've done my job". And that's what I love.

Linden (00:28:32)

Any kind of activity where somebody says, "I want to be like you when I grow up".
Or you can see tangibly that you've connected with people. That, that is so powerful.

Michael (00:28:37)

Yeah.

Catriona (00:28:42)

Yeah, just warms my heart.

Linden (00:28:43)

And that's what we're here for, right? That's why we do what we do.

Jen (00:28:46)

Thank you, Cat.

Yeah, I can't wait to come and see you do that in your absolute element with, with lightning. Sure there was a pun there, but I missed the chance.

Michael (00:28:55)

Don't sit in the front row, Jen.
It sounds like you know, could be quite shocking. I don't know.
There's definitely a pun there that we're missing as well.

Graham (00:29:01)

Aha, I got it.
Shocking, yes.

Catriona (00:29:07)

Don't worry, keep it quite grounded.

Jen (00:29:10)

Cat, we love you.

Michael, is your highlight the time that you fawned over your Dad from one minute past midnight until he went to bed on his birthday?

Michael (00:29:19)

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think so. I mean, similar to that. It's just that, what it is the perspective that having a baby is brought to work.

You know, that idea that there's more to life than work?

Jen (00:29:34)

Absolutely. You know, family. Time away from work, time to reflect on why we do the work that we do. You know, we're trying to make a better world for our kids and all the other kids out there. I think, yeah. I think that's super important highlight.

I guess my highlight is a bit more work focused. And I've just been reflecting recently. So I have this fabulous gig. I've been doing it for a very long time of going into the Triple-R radio studio on Wednesday mornings and having a 15 minute segment with the breakfast crew there to talk about any topic in science that I like. And yeah, I've been doing it for a long time, more than a decade.

And I just think my high is recognising the development in my own skills over that time. Because I feel like when I used to go in, you know, I was so adamant that you know, I needed to share all of the facts and share them accurately. And you know, I used to have pages of notes and I feel like you know, I felt like I was, I did a good job if I got through all my notes.

Whereas these days I just go in with a couple of dot points and just have a great conversation. And we just talk about stuff and they throw me random questions and I managed to dredge various facts out of my head. And you know, maybe it's not quite as informative, but I think it's way better listening.

And just recognising my own confidence growing over that time and feeling you know, I really look forward to it. They're like my friends and we have these fabulous conversations.

And the fact that it's sort of also my job. I guess it's just what you were talking about before really, Cat and Linden. Like it's just, and Graham. In fact, all of us. It's just this kind of quiet, humble sense of mastery. It's not boasting, it's not shouting from the rooftops, "Hey, look at me, I'm so good at this". It's just a very quiet sense of actually, this is a skill that I've worked really hard on for a really long time.

And now I get to enjoy engaging in that skill in a way that I feel really good about and that I feel is not only honoring my bigger purpose in life, but also delivering something really meaningful to whoever my audience is at that time.

And we've all had to work really hard to get there. And I guess our lows demonstrated that sometimes no matter how hard you work, it still doesn't all go to plan. Your equipment fails, like for Graham. Or I underestimate how much sleep I need. Linden, you underestimated how much preparation you needed. Cat, you just had a ridiculous last minute attempt to wing something; it didn't work.

You know, like we've all had times where no matter how hard we've worked and no matter how advanced our skills might be in one setting, that it can still all fall apart. But those days when it goes really well and you feel like you're really honoring your audience's time and their attention and their willingness to listen to you, I think it feels pretty awesome.

Michael (00:32:18)

Hmm, yeah. And when you've kind of mastered a skill to a certain stage, you don't have to think about all the external factors. You can really just focus on your audience and really kind of engage with them.

And probably also, it's kind of a good comparison that you've done there as well Jen. You've kind of compared yourself to yourself at two different time points and just looked at the change there rather than comparing yourself to other people, which probably wouldn't necessarily lead to a highlight.

Jen (00:32:48)

Well, my friends, we could spend hours and hours and hours talking about this, but we do not have that time.

So massive thanks for joining us for our 99th episode. I'm pretty excited about that.

Michael (00:33:01)

Woo-Hoo!

Jen (00:33:01)

We have something fun also planned for our 100th episode.
So you'll have to tune in next week for that.

But umm, massive thanks!

Graham (00:33:07)

Oh, no, no clues?

Michael, Catriona (00:33:10)

Is it cake?

Jen (00:33:10)

No clues.

Of course it's cake! We're going to send a cake to every single listener. No, we're not. I take that back.

But Linden and Cat and Graham, thank you so much for joining us. Massively appreciate your time and expertise and candid sharing of experiences.

Hey Michael, I reckon we should get this mob back again sometime soon, don't you?

Michael (00:33:33)

I think absolutely, yeah.

We said the next time we're going to get Graham back will be after aliens have been discovered. So that hasn't happened yet, but you know...

Graham (00:33:44)

Well, not that I'm allowed to say anyway.

Catriona (00:33:46)

But Graham needs to practise opera and then you'll have an opera singer.

Graham (00:33:49)

That's right, I'll practise my opera in the meantime as well.

Jen (00:33:52)

Maybe Graham can lure the aliens into the Sydney Opera House by singing opera to them.

Graham (00:33:59)

That would keep us safe from the aliens forever, I suspect.
[They've] turned the craft around.

Michael (00:34:07)

Yeah. That's just a wonderful image to end on, I think.

Jen (00:34:11)

Excellent.

Thanks everyone. Bye!

Michael (00:34:14)

Thank you.

Graham (00:34:14)

Thank you. Bye.

Catriona (00:34:14)

Bye.

Jen (00:34:34)

Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Let's Talk SciComm from the University of Melbourne Science Communication Teaching Team. I'm Associate Professor Jen Martin and my brilliant cohost is Dr Michael Wheeler.

Michael (00:34:48)

And if you've enjoyed listening to this episode, we'd love you to share it with your friends and family. We'd love you to share your favourite episode online. And you can find us at LetsTalkSciComm on X, formerly known as Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

Jen (00:35:03)

And this season, we are asking for your help to spread the word so that more people find out about our podcast.

So if you enjoy listening, we would love you to tell a friend, but we'd also love you to think about taking a couple of minutes to write us a review.

Whatever platform you listen on, there will be a place for you to leave a review. And we're going to keep track and award our favourite reviewees some prizes.

We're thinking about some merch. And we'd also love to reward our favourite review with a free science communication workshop that we will run for you in person or online, depending on whereabouts you are.

Michael (00:35:38)

Ooh, prizes. And if... They sound great. And if you'd like to get in touch to suggest a guest or a future topic, we'd love to hear from you. Please email us at lets.talk.scicomm@gmail.com. And as always, a huge thank you to our production team Stephanie Wong and Steven Tang.