Episode 109 - Interview with ‘Mother of Sharks’ Melissa Cristina Márquez

Transcript

Jen (00:00:13)

Hello, everyone. I'm so delighted to welcome you to another episode of Let's Talk SciComm. I'm Jen and as always, I am joined by my excellent friend and co-host, Michael. How you doing, Michael?

Michael (00:00:26)

I'm doing very good, Jen. Very excited for today's episode.

I feel like this topic is particularly interesting to an Irish man who traveled over to Australia. Where you know, there's sharks here in Australia, but not in Ireland. So I'm all ears.

Jen (00:00:46)

Yes, well, it's the first time we've chatted with Melissa, but Melissa has been on my list of people that I've wanted to chat to for a very long time. So I'm very excited to introduce you to Melissa Cristina Márquez. And she's also known as the Mother of Sharks. So I think that's a pretty cool nickname.

She is a Latina shark researcher, as you've gathered from Michael's hint. She's a conservation biologist. She's a wildlife educator. She's a writer. She's a speaker. She's a TV and podcast host. She's super passionate and active in the world of science communication, which is why of course, we want to speak with her.

So Melissa was born in Puerto Rico and raised in Mexico and in the US. And I guess that's part of why she has such an international reputation, but also just because she's so bloody good at what she does.

So she's partly known for her research on sharks and other marine predators. But I think so much of her reputation is because of her really active science communication. So she's got all the credentials. She's got a master's degree in marine biology, and she's currently completing her PhD. But her approach to science communication I think, particularly for someone still at a very early career stage is pretty remarkable.

She's done a whole lot of innovative things. Her approach is very inclusive, which is something we think and talk about a lot. So I can't list everything that Melissa's done. It would take too long and we wouldn't get to speak with her, but a few highlights.

So she's the founder of the Fins United Initiative. And this is a program that is all about educating the public about sharks. And I'm guessing we're going to talk a bit about the fact that there's a hell of a lot of misconceptions out there in the world about sharks.

And most of what Melissa does from my understanding is bilingual. So both in English and Spanish, which is really important. So this idea of making marine science accessible across language barriers.

She's also a highly successful children's book author. She's got this amazing series called "Wild Survival". And I'm pretty sure it's inspired partly by her own experiences. We're going to ask Melissa more about that.

And this is a way of introducing young readers, particularly those from Latinx communities, to the ocean, to ocean animals, to wildlife biology. And I love the idea that this is a way of showing kids that they belong in science and in STEMM.

You might've seen Melissa on TV. She's been a regular on Discovery Channel Shark Week, on National Geographic, BBC Earth. She's got TED Talks. She uses social media really effectively.

A big list of awards as well. So she was recognised back in 2021 as a member of The Badass 50 list. How cool is that? I want to get that name too. She's been a member of the annual Forbes 30 under 30 science list. She's a superstar of STEMM.

And the thing that I saw recently, which really I felt very excited about, there's this stunning artwork that Melissa shared on her socials called "The Guardians of the Seven Seas." And Melissa was featured among incredible luminaries like Jacques Cousteau, Dr. Sylvia Earle, and Sir David Attenborough. Michael, can you imagine having your face reproduced right next to Sir David Attenborough?

So Melissa, I know I haven't covered it all. I hope that's enough to give people a sense of the extraordinary work that you do.

And just congratulations and welcome to the podcast. We're so excited you've made time to chat with us.

Melissa (00:04:12)

No, thank you guys so much for giving me the platform to talk about sharks and science communication.

Michael (00:04:17)

Yeah, that's... it's a fantastic intro and I can't wait to dig into a little bit more of it.

Jen (00:04:22)

I think we need to get stuck straight in Melissa too. I think asking the most obvious question other than how did you get to be an official badass?

And that is why sharks? So is this something that happened in childhood? Like how did you discover that you adore these animals that most people are absolutely terrified of?

Melissa (00:04:43)

Funnily enough, Discovery Channel Shark Week. So a lot of people, that's kind of like their gateway entry drug, if you will, into the world of sharks.

And I feel like it divides people either... into like two camps. One, you're really really passionate about sharks and you're like, "Yeah, love them". And the other is like, "Absolutely not. I want nothing to do with them." Obviously I'm part of the former, not the latter.

But yeah, but I was a kid and we had just moved from Mexico over to the United States and my parents handed me a remote and they were like, "Alright, we're going to go unpack the house, enjoy". And I was like, English channels, more than like three channels, this is awesome.

And I just happened to be going through them and instantly turned to a channel that had a great white shark breaching or jumping out of the water. And since then I've just been enamored and under their spell.

Jen (00:05:40)

And how amazing that you've come full circle and you've now become part of that Discovery Channel, whatever, I haven't seen it.

But like how cool that you've become one of the presenters on that same show that got you involved in the first place. Was that a, kind of an emotional moment for you?

Melissa (00:05:56)

Yeah, it definitely was. Because I still get quite a lot of messages from people when the show re-airs.

Of parents or guardians saying, "Hey, my little kid is watching and sees you speaking Spanish, sees you looking how you do." And they say, "Wow, if she can be a shark scientist then I can be too."

And so it's me now having the privilege and the honor of being a role model that I wish I had when I first saw Shark Week.

Jen (00:06:28)

That just gives me goosebumps, Melissa. I mean, that's everything, right?

Everything you've just said, that's why all of us do what we do really.

Melissa (00:06:35)

That's it!

Michael (00:06:37)

It's really amazing that you can have you know, a passion, an early kind of passionate interest in sharks. And you know, maintain that and actually make that your career and you know, something that you're still passionate about.

And I know you've just published very recently an article in Forbes titled How ‘Jaws’ Sank Shark Conservation Before It Began", which I thought is a really fascinating read.

I mean, it's really just amazing how a movie can have that effect, I guess, in the minds of a lot of people. I mean, I suppose it makes sense that a lot more people would have seen that movie than you know, would have ever you know, interacted with shark scientists or sharks. And it did seem to really terrify a lot of people.

I'm really curious to ask you a little bit more about that. You know, specifically the challenges of communicating conservation of an animal that people are absolutely terrified of and probably don't want anything to do with, as you said.

Melissa (00:07:50)

Yeah, so Jaws really kind of set shark conservation back a couple of steps. And so when we're talking about modern day conservation of sharks, we are kind of starting on the back foot because as you rightly pointed out, a lot of people don't want to protect an animal that has run-ins with people and can injure and fatally kill. Like not only injure, but kill people.

Sharks themselves aren't cuddly. They're not fluffy. They're not your cute, adorable, charismatic animal. And so you've got a lot of things that are working against them.

And Jaws really was kind of the first impression or introduction that a lot of people had to sharks.

So you really have a lot of just punches against these poor animals, even though they've been around for over 400 million years and are such an integral part to the ecosystem.

I mean, not only do they keep the ocean ecosystem and food web in balance. But I mean, they're culturally important to so many different indigenous communities around the world.

They are economically important. You know, the shark ecotourism industry is billions with a B around the world. And people come traveling around to see live sharks in specific areas. Australia down in Port Lincoln being one of those areas where you can go cage diving with great white sharks.

And so... And then of course, ecologically, keeping the food web in balance, being nutrient carriers, so many things I could list on and on and on.

And so there is a lot of importance to these animals. But because of how they look and how they have been portrayed, both in the past and presently. Yeah, it's very hard to talk to people about, "Hey, this is why you should care about sharks and why we should protect them".

Usually for me, I try to come from a place of understanding because I feel like all of us kind of have that fear of something that allows us to understand when people are afraid of something.

And I'll give you an example. I might be a shark scientist, but I'm absolutely terrified of spiders. I understand their ecological role. I know how they have been portrayed in the media. I've seen them in popular movies and whatnot.

But I... Any time I see one, I go to the other side of the room and I sometimes tell my husband, "Well, we're going to have to burn the entire apartment building because I'm not going anywhere near that thing." And so I get that fear. And that fear is something that people have towards sharks.

So for me, it's not so much convincing people out of their fear. It's more so showing them another layer of sharks that they might have not been exposed to before.

Talking about the diversity of sharks. You know, there's over 500 different species. A lot of people, when they think of a shark, they think great white shark, hammerhead, bull shark, tiger shark. Great, there's a bit of diversity there. But they're the toothy, mean kind of looking ones.

Whereas there's Epaulette sharks here in Australia that are spotted and beautiful and are very slender and walk on the ground. There's Caribbean rough sharks, which look like burnt wontons that are kind of just pottering around in the ocean. There's Wobbegong sharks, which look like ornate carpets on the sea floor. There's so much diversity to them.

Once you showcase that diversity and show how little of the species actually interacts with people in a negative sort of way, then you can kind of start a conversation of, again, not getting rid of their fear, but at least getting them to a point of respecting the animal and seeing it in a different way. 'Cause that allows for the conversation to then flow into one of coexistence, which I think is really important nowadays.

Michael (00:11:40)

Yeah, it's really interesting hearing you talk about fear. And you know, you are terrified of spiders.

I presume you're not afraid of sharks? Or is it... (laughs)

Melissa (00:11:53)

No.

Michael (00:11:55)

But is it bad to be, you know, to be afraid of sharks? Or is it really just how people respond to that fear that's potentially detrimental?

I mean, I can imagine it's, it might be a good thing to have a healthy bit of fear and respect for sharks.

But yeah, what are your thoughts on you know, the fact that sharks seem to go hand in hand with fear?

Melissa (00:12:20)

I think it's... You know, I wouldn't say good to have a little bit of fear.

I think more respect for wild animals, because then that makes you think, "Oh, you know what? I shouldn't go up to a lion in the middle of Africa and go pet it." Similar happenstance to sharks in the water. You shouldn't go up and grab its tail and try to ride it or anything like that.

But I don't think you're ever going to get rid of the fear around sharks. So to me, the problem is not people being afraid of sharks. It's the actions that come from that fear that can be detrimental to populations worldwide. And we've seen some of that.

There is actually a study that was done by Dr. Christopher Pepin-Neff, who is actually here in Australia. And he's talked about that influence of fear that has come from Jaws, that has led actually to policymakers and those people in power to action culls, to action... actions that lead to the death of many sharks in a specific localised location. And so that's when fear is detrimental. I don't think fear itself is a bad thing, but it is how you act from that fear.

Jen (00:13:36)

Yeah. And I think you make such a good point, Melissa. 'Cause you're right. There's a whole lot of negative outcomes from people's fear.

But on the flip side, what you talked about earlier is the fact that people are missing out on the opportunity to delight in just how beautiful some sharks are, just how elegant they are.

My personal favorites are wobbegongs. I've had some really amazing wobbegong experiences, snorkeling. And they are just absolutely stunning animals.

And to think that a lot of people will never have the chance to realise how beautiful sharks can be versus how beautiful some other animals are.

So I think yeah, I think that diversity piece is really important.

Melissa (00:14:18)

And that's why a lot of shark scientists are rallying for more diverse representation of sharks. And also the shark scientists on media, be it TV, be it on papers, be it on social media. So people can kind of get the whole picture before demonising an animal.

Jen (00:14:36)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But that leads me beautifully to what I'd like to talk about next. You just talked about shark scientists being in the media.

Like I said earlier, I think for someone who is doing your PhD now, it is really remarkable the diversity and amount of communicating you've done about your expertise to different audiences. And I'm really keen to hear more about that.

At what stage did you decide that communicating with different audiences was going to be something you were going to devote all of this time and effort to? Or did it just kind of happen step-by-step? Did people try and deter you from it?

There's a lot of people in academia who are pretty... I've found in my career, you know, are pretty negative about non-traditional academic outputs.

Like just tell us your story. How did you get to be this incredibly experienced and vibrant communicator that you are today?

Melissa (00:15:29)

Yeah, I'll start by answering your last question first, which is yeah, a lot of people don't see science communication as... for lack of a better word, real job. Because a lot of people believe that if you can do one, such as the research, you can do the other, which is communicating with a broad audience. And some people can.

But some people, that's just not in their wheelhouse of skills, which is totally fine. But that's when science communicators come in, with being able to take all of that knowledge and expertise and that jargon and translate it into something that the wider public can understand. So we take that science and we relate it back to: why does it impact you and why you should care?

For me, I think I've always known I was going to be a science communicator. But there wasn't a term for it, or I didn't know the term for it. Because I always thought, What is the point of doing all of this research if nobody knows about it? You know, academic journals are famous for having these ridiculous paywalls of all of this plethora of information and research that is out there, but only a select few can access it.

And so my job is to kind of be that bridge between the shark scientists and the work that they do, and then translate it into something that's catchy, that's entertaining, that's educative. And relate it to whoever it is that I'm talking to, be it kids, be it senior citizens, be it adults, whoever it is.

And that's kind of what's led me down all the different paths of science communication. So such as doing podcasts, writing for Forbes, writing books, starting to host a book club for kids about nature and wildlife. Doing my own podcast in a different language, because science communication is largely done in English. But of course, there's many other different languages that exist out there. So you want to make sure you include those communities in your scientific outreach as well.

So yeah, for me, just all of the different outputs I put out is to make sure I reach the greatest amount of people in whatever kind of fashion it is that they want. So it's meeting the people where they're at, essentially.

Jen (00:17:42)

I feel like you should come and give some of our lectures, Melissa, because so much of what you just said is so perfectly aligned with what Michael and I and our team believe and why we do the jobs we do, which is teaching those communication skills to scientists. So sing it, I hear you.

Michael (00:17:55)

Yeah, it's really, really fantastic, like the variety of communication that you're doing.

And you mentioned kids there as an audience, which I think is absolutely fantastic. You know, I'm a huge fan of kids' books. I read a lot of them at the moment.

And you know, I think it's great that you've, you know, written an adventure series that I suppose is going to be able to educate you know, kids and parents at the same time. And you've got shark science in there. You know, accurate science in those books.

And I'd love to know, you know, where did the idea come from to write kids' books? And what have you learned from the experience?

Melissa (00:18:42)

You know, for me, the idea from it kind of just, it stemmed from that want to get the information that I knew out there to as many people as possible. And of course that meant kids as well. You know, they're the next generation that's going to be taking the helm and taking care of our planet.

So of course you want to develop a stewardship for the planet and have them see nature as something that we can coexist with and be a part of instead of be apart from as we've kind of been living for the last couple of decades.

And so I really wanted to get in there early with kids when it comes to educating them about nature and all the different wildlife.

I've got the adventure series, which is called Wild Survival. That's for ages 7 to about 13, 14. But I've also got picture books, which even goes younger than that. That's talking about the mother of sharks, so my life as a shark scientist so far.

And also Sea of Constellations, which actually melds my cultural background and the deities, the Aztec deities, as well as marine science in there. So you're getting kind of a one-two punch of you're teaching kids not only about a culture they might not know a lot about, but also animals they might not know about.

You know, I think the thing that I really learned from writing kids' books is we don't give them a lot of credit. You know, kids are so smart. They ask all of these why questions. They're intaking so much information that is out there about the world.

And I kind of want to give them credit when it comes to what they can handle information-wise. You know, a lot of people for my Wild Survival book that was focusing on sharks, I was talking about illegal and unreported fishing and overfishing and bycatch.

People were like, "Oh, those are terms and concepts that are too big for kids."

And I'm like, "Not really". Like, they understand when you take too much of one thing that suddenly there's not enough of that thing, so you need to take it resourcefully and carefully. They know you get in trouble if you're not reporting something that you should be reporting on.

And so you give it to them in a palatable way, they're going to understand the concept. And then of course, as they grow, the definition of what that concept is changes and grows with them. So yeah, I've loved the challenge of taking complex concepts and making it palatable to kids.

Jen (00:21:06)

Yeah, and I think you're so right that we constantly underestimate how smart kids are and how interested they are in different topics and how open they are to understanding new things. I mean, that's what being a kid is, right? It's learning new things all the time.

So yeah, I've had a look at your books and I think they're absolutely beautiful, Melissa. So thank you.

I guess it leads me to a totally different type of output that I'm really interested in understanding more. And that is something that you also have a lot of experience in, and that's TV.

I guess I'm interested in how much input do you get to have in shaping the narrative or the message with the TV that you've been involved with. And how hard is it to get the balance right between TV that's going to be engaging and accessible and keep people watching when you are the scientist and presumably your golden rule is it also has to be completely accurate.

Tell us a bit about what it's like in that world. Because TV, it's not just you, right? Like when you're writing a book, the buck stops with you. That is not the case when there's a huge number of people involved in producing the TV.

Melissa (00:22:04)

No, that's exactly right. And that's why I'm quite picky with who I work with. Because often as a guest or a host of a TV show, you actually don't get that much say in how you are portrayed. But you do have a lot of say of what comes out of your mouth.

So I find it a really big responsibility on making sure of the topics that we're gonna be covering. I actually do even more research on them. So even though, for example, Shark Attacks is something that I get featured on quite a bit.

So I want to make sure that if we're going to be covering certain topics, that I read as many articles as I can about what happened and what people think occurred, and more statistics and whatnot around that. So yeah, there is a big responsibility when you have such a big platform.

So I want to make sure myself, I can do as much as I can to have... to represent myself in the best way possible.

Of course, how people portray what I say, of course, can vary wildly, which is why I do a lot of research on who the producers are, who the company is that I'm working with and what they've produced in the background as well.

When done correctly, TV is such a great platform for science communication. But that's the challenge, is making sure it's done correctly.

Jen (00:23:35)

And I'm guessing you've had to learn over the years how to be assertive and set the boundaries that align with your values in that case. Is that, would that be a fair assumption?

Melissa (00:23:49)

Yeah, definitely. There's been some times where I've said, "I'm not saying this" or "I don't know enough about this, so I don't feel comfortable saying it". And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think that's keeping true to your own values, but it also shows that scientists don't know everything.

I don't think there's any shame in saying, "No, I don't know something". And also on the flip side, showing passion. Because there's so many times that I've been told by older scientists, "Oh, you're too loud. You're too vibrant. You're too energetic about this specific topic."

And I'm like, "That's (a), what reels people in. But also that's just me." If you don't like my personality, that's fine, but that's what reels people in to learn more about what it is that you're talking about.

'Cause if you're sitting there monotone and you're not making any sense and you're not saying anything else, and you're keeping them at like an arm's length, why would anyone want to listen to what you're saying?

You want people to be engaged and have a conversation with you, see the passion that you have for whatever it is that you're talking about.

And I'm lucky that comes naturally to me. And that opens up the door for people to be like, Oh, wait, she's really excited about sharks. I wonder why? And do their own kind of deep dive.

Jen (00:25:03)

So Michael, it occurs to me, I didn't even include in my introduction 'cause there was so many other things to talk about that Melissa and I actually spent three weeks on a ship together in Antarctica.

Melissa (00:25:13)

We did.

Jen (00:25:12)

So I can absolutely vouch for the fact she's not putting this on.

Melissa is as vibrant and enthusiastic and passionate and delightful as she sounds.

This is natural, Melissa. Which is why you are so talented at what you do, Melissa. No question.

Melissa (00:25:27)

Thank you, Jen. I appreciate it.

Michael (00:25:29)

Yeah, I can tell. We can all hear the passion. I mean, it sounds like a really great learning experience.

You know, obviously for the audience members involved. But also, you know, it's great to hear that you know, you do a whole load of research you know, for these episodes. And I suppose a lot of the science communication work that you do.

And I would love to know, you know, whether you know, you've learned anything from those experiences that perhaps influences the way you do your own research. Because I think often it can be really insightful interacting with different audiences to get a picture of you know, what other people think might be important or interesting research questions. You know, people who don't have a background in science.

But yeah, curious to ask you, has your science communication work influenced the research work that you do?

Melissa (00:26:30)

Oh, a hundred percent. Whenever I do some sort of research, I am thinking about the communities that I normally interact with or communicate with. Because why would I do research that I don't think my audience would be interested in and also that I'm not interested in?

Science is a collaborative endeavor by nature. And so for me, I think my science communication has really put in the forefront to make sure that my research is collaborative.

And I don't mean by just people of different walks of life in regards to, Oh, I need an ecologist and I need a statistician or anything.

I want a whole entire slew of different people on papers that I work with or different points of view. You know, I want indigenous science to be involved in the work that I do. I want policy makers. I want statisticians and ecologists. I want people who are working on the human dimensions of conservation.

I want so many different points of view to make sure whatever research output I'm a part of or that I put out personally can reach as many people as possible but also has enough different facets that it's going to grab somebody's attention, be it one thread or many threads that they hold on to.

Jen (00:27:42)

Yeah, I think there's a lot to take from that, Melissa. Because science communication and being a scientist you know, they're not separate things. I've never seen them as separate things.

They go hand in hand and each endeavor becomes richer and more well thought out if we take on learnings from the other.

And I... Which is why I get frustrated that as you also found, you know, there are people who are quite negative about scientists choosing to spend time communicating about their work to different audiences because surely that's why we do it. What's the point in doing the science if we're not learning things that we can then share with people who need to know that information and care about that information?

Melissa (00:28:22)

Exactly, I think at our core, all of us are science communicators in the science industry, but how we go about communicating the science is different.

Some people, their science communication skillset lies specifically just in the academic. You know, when you are putting out papers, that's science communication, it's a type of it.

Jen (00:28:40)

Of course.

Melissa (00:28:41)

You know, you're putting that information out there for the world to read.

And then there's the other aspect of science communication, which is taking then that form of science communication and translating it even further to a wider audience.

So you know, all of us as scientists, we have to be able to communicate what we're doing. It just depends on what degree we are communicating it at.

And some, you know, they stay up at the higher levels in regards to just putting out academic papers, whitepapers, and that's totally fine. But it doesn't negate the fact that then there are the other science communicators that will then disseminate it to the other public. That's just as important.

Jen (00:29:19)

Yeah, I completely agree. And so Melissa, someone who's listening to you thinking, I don't really want to be in that former category. I don't want to be a scientist who only communicates with other academic audiences. Actually, I'd really like to be someone who is more inclusive and spends time making my science more accessible to other audiences, but I don't know where to start or I don't think I have the skills.

What would be a couple of key pieces of advice you would give to early career scientists of you know, a first couple of steps they could take to being a more inclusive science communicator?

Melissa (00:29:52)

Yeah, I think following other science communicators to see what they are doing and what you connect with the most is probably a really great first step. Because then you could be like, Alright, this is the type of content I resonate with. You're not going to know what you're good at or what you enjoy unless you kind of dip your fingers in and figure it out.

So write a blog post, write a Instagram carousel or shoot a reel or a TikTok or a YouTube video. And just figure out what it is that kind of makes your heart sing and allows you to be the most authentic communicating self that you can be.

Jen (00:30:27)

Yeah. Hear, hear. It's not a competition.

Michael (00:30:28)

Completely agree. And you're absolutely right. You know, people can dip their toes in here and there and find what makes their heart sing, as you say. that's really fantastic advice.

And I'm noticing the time. I feel like we could you know, continue chatting for a very long time. But we do need to move to the next section of our podcast to wrap things up, which is our quick questions. So we're going to shift gears here a little bit.

Michael (00:31:03)

We've got some different questions that we'd like to ask to round out the interview.

And the first one that I would like to ask is: What emoji do you use the most, Melissa?

Melissa (00:31:15)

The laughing, crying one because of the state of the world.

Michael (00:31:20)

Okay.

And what about shark emojis? Are you a fan?

Melissa (00:31:26)

Look, there's one shark emoji, 'cause I've got the Apple and there's one shark emoji and it's cute.

But I know there's others that exist out there that are a lot cuter and are more anatomically correct.

Michael (00:31:37)

Fantastic.

Okay. So next question, Melissa. If you could instantly become an expert in any other field, what would it be?

Melissa (00:31:47)

Funnily enough, when I told my parents that I... If I would never became a shark scientist, there was another field that I was interested in.

They were like, "Oh, what?" And I don't know if you've ever seen Twisters or Twisters 2, but I wanted to be a storm chaser.

Jen (00:32:00)

Yeah.

Melissa (00:32:00)

So yeah, that would be the other one, would be meteorology and really getting into it with the weather.

Michael (00:32:10)

I think...

Jen (00:32:12)

I see a theme here around danger, Melissa.

Michael (00:32:15)

I was just going to say, I think storm chasing probably qualifies you for the badass list as well.

Melissa (00:32:23)

Yeah, my parents always joke. They're like, "You couldn't study something like more demure, like guppies or manatees?"

And I was like, "No."

Jen (00:32:34)

Well, bearing in mind your parents' slight misgivings then, the next question I'd like to ask you is, what's one piece of advice you would give your younger self when you were starting out in science?

So whether that was high school or an undergrad, like what's a piece of advice you wish you could go back and give yourself?

Melissa (00:32:53)

Don't be afraid to ask the questions. There was a few times where I didn't want to seem like I didn't know what was going on, or I had questions and I didn't want to be the one that raised my hand.

And I wanted... I don't want to say I wanted to fit in, but I didn't want to seem like the dumb one.

So I would tell myself, "Ask the questions, because chances are somebody else probably has them as well". And it opens up dialogue about equity and accessibility of science as well.

Jen (00:33:26)

Yeah, that's great advice.

I think I need to hear that today too.

Michael (00:33:26)

Yeah, such good advice.

Michael (00:33:30)

Yep, yep. Yep, I've definitely been in that position as well and held back.

Okay, final question, Melissa. You've given some fantastic advice. But I would love to know if you had to pick one top tip for communicating effectively about science, what would it be?

Melissa (00:33:49)

Ooh, that's tough to narrow it down to one. I think probably my favorite is meeting people where they're at.

And from there you can form your science communication plan of attack, if you will, to get your message across in the most effective way as possible.

But also remembering that you need to bring the joy and the excitement and the rollercoaster of emotions that science comes with to kind of reel people into your story.

So yeah, show the humanity side of science and meet people where they're at.

Jen (00:34:33)

Beautiful advice, Melissa.

Melissa, I just want to say thank you. It has been so good to see you again and I'm just bursting with pride for all the incredible work that you're doing.

And I'm really grateful that you made time for us. Thank you for organising babysitting. Thank you for taking time out of your PhD. Thank you for your really thoughtful and you know, interesting responses to some of our questions.

I just love seeing you out in the world doing what you're doing. And I think there's so many people who benefit from having a passionate, you know, engaging young woman like you working in the field of shark research. It's just awesome.

So I can't wait to see all the amazing things you're going to do in the future. And yeah, just keep being amazing, and thank you for talking with us.

Melissa (00:35:17)

No, thank you guys so much for giving me the platform to talk about sharks and science communication.

Michael (00:35:22)

Oh, it's been a pleasure.

Thanks, Melissa.

Melissa (00:35:26)

Thanks guys.

Jen (00:35:29)

Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Let's Talk SciComm from the University of Melbourne Science Communication Teaching Team.

Michael (00:35:38)

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