Episode 111 - Interview with early career scientist and science communicator Dr Kira Hughes

Transcript

Jen (00:00:17)

Hello, everybody. What a wonderful day to welcome you to another episode of Let's Talk SciComm, my favorite place to be. And that is in great part because I get to spend my time here with the wonderful Michael Wheeler, my friend and colleague.

And oh gosh, Michael, I didn't pre-plan what I was gonna say. I can't say partner in crime again 'cause I've said it before. But you know, you're just you, Michael. And it's so good to be here with you.

Michael (00:00:39)

Oh, thank you, Jen. Yeah, there's been no new crimes committed. So yeah, that was past Michael...

Jen (00:00:46)

Okay.

Michael (00:00:47)

... That was partner in crime. I've changed my ways.

But yeah, very, very excited, Jen, for today's episode. We have a very special guest. We are chatting with Dr. Kira Hughes. And I'm very excited that Kira's here. Kira's an aerobiologist. And Kira's recently completed her PhD at Deakin University, where I also work. Which is kind of how I came across you, Kira.

And you investigated the causes of an interesting phenomenon called thunderstorm asthma and how to better monitor airborne allergens like pollen.

And on top of all of the important research that Kira has done, Kira is also an award-winning science communicator.

You know... And when I say award-winning, I mean award-winning. So look, let me just name a few of Kira's awards. So recently Kira, you were named one of Science and Technology Australia's Superstars of STEM, which is a really prestigious program celebrating women in science. And congratulations, Kira.

Kira (00:01:56)

Thank you.

Michael (00:02:08)

You are also a national finalist in FameLab, and you've been you know, runners-up in People's Choice at Deakin University's Three-Minute Thesis.

Kira doesn't just stick to I guess traditional science communication events either. Kira's shared her science through art and comedy. And you've even done stand-up comedy Kira at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival.

Kira (00:02:26)

I have, yeah.

Michael (00:02:28)

Yeah. And you've done a couple of other comedy gigs as well. But that's, you know, that's just a bit of a taster.

You know, you've written for or been featured in media outlets, such as The Conversation and Guardian Australia.

And Kira, I actually, I had a quick look at your LinkedIn profile in preparation for today, and I think I counted over 40 different science communication achievements. You know, from keynote presentation to radio interview to a comedy game show.

So, you know, I've just given a little bit of a taster there. But wow, I mean, so many accomplishments, Kira. I'm really excited to chat about some of that today.

Kira (00:03:09)

Oh, thank you. I will say, I do have to also look at my LinkedIn sometimes because I've done so much, I forget myself.

Michael (00:03:16)

Yeah, yeah. Look I mean, it's a really good lesson in we do forget stuff that we do, right? And we really should be noting it down at the time. So I think you do an excellent job of that. And it's yeah, I think it's something that we can probably learn from.

Jen (00:03:33)

Well Kira, anytime you need help to keep your CV up to date, you can just call on us 'cause we've been watching you and we're just so proud of everything that you've achieved in the last few years...

Kira (00:03:44)

Ohh thank you.

Jen (00:03:44)

And just all the times and places you've put your hand up and said, "Yeah, I'll have a go at that, let's see how that goes." So yeah, we're very proud of you. Congratulations.

And thanks so much for making time. Amidst everything else, we know you've got a new job at the moment. So coming, making the time to be on air with us is really exciting.

Kira (00:04:00)

Yeah, it's been a very hectic year. I submitted my thesis back in January and then I got officially conferred in June. And that was two months after starting a brand new job.

In the meanwhile, trying to still fit in as much SciComm stuff as I can as well. I... Literally after this, I will be heading to Beechworth for a National Science Week event.

Jen (00:04:27)

Woo-hoo!

Michael (00:04:28)

Wow, you're so busy.

Jen (00:04:29)

Yes, we are... We should say we are recording this just during National Science Week. You won't be listening to it for a little bit. But yes, we're all very excited about National Science Week at the moment.

Michael (00:04:41)

Yeah. Well Kira, I hope you found time to celebrate your PhD in the midst of everything else you were doing.

Kira (00:04:46)

I kind of did. A little bit, a little bit late. My amazing partner put together a big dinner for all my close friends and family in the weeks leading up to my graduation ceremony, which was really special.

Michael (00:05:04)

Oh, that's lovely.

Kira (00:05:04)

And it was amazing because it was people like within my academic circle and within my more personal circle.

So it was like, you know, almost two dozen people there. It was really amazing.

Michael (00:05:05)

Ahh nice, yeah, Oh, that's lovely. I'm a big fan of big dinners, so we're speaking the language.

Kira (00:05:21)

It was also an all-you-can-eat, so it was definitely a big dinner.

Michael (00:05:25)

Okay, now I'm listening. That's amazing!

Now, before I get too distracted by all-you-can-eat buffets, I want to start at the beginning Kira. And I would love to ask you how you got interested in science in the first place?

Kira (00:05:47)

Really interesting question because I feel like I've always been really fascinated about science since I was a kid. I have a memory, like when you used to have like the magazine TV guides. And when I was like in primary school, I was looking for like a show to watch or a movie to watch, and I saw something that said The Big Bang Theory.

And me as a very oblivious kid. I was like, Oh, this has gotta be about space. I love space so much. And I turned it on, and I was like, Why are all these people just like talking and laughing? It was a very confusing time.

But as I kind of like went through school, I still was very interested in science, but I wasn't sure exactly if that was something I wanted to pursue. At the time, I was really interested in writing. I wanted to be like a journalist or an author. I did like a lot of English and like history, classical kind of courses.

But I had an amazing teacher when I got to the end of high school, and he really sparked that interest again in science. And then I kind of did a complete 180 at the end of year 12. I originally was going to do a Bachelor of Arts. And then just decided last minute, I'm going to go down the science route, and I've stuck with that ever since.

Jen (00:07:02)

Yay, what a good decision. But gee Kira, isn't that interesting that it's so common that we hear similar stories where one teacher had the power to completely change someone's life? And it just, it's just mind boggling that teachers... You know, teachers should be our absolutely top paid, top respected, top valued profession. They are so important.

And look at you. I mean, I also have an arts degree. Arts degrees are fabulous, but look at what you've gone on to do in science. And without that teacher, maybe that never would have happened.

Kira (00:07:35)

I do... Like I do still credit my background and my interest in writing. Because I think that, that really helped me get into science communication so easily as well. You know, I used to spend my time just like writing you know, funny stories and poetry when I was in high school. So writing just came naturally to me when I got into this.

Jen (00:07:56)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I have a similar feeling about those of us who had a real passion for English and stories and writing, and then a passion for science. And we've all kind of found ourselves in this science communication world.

But so tell us then Kira, when did you actually start doing what we kind of talk about as science communication? Meaning beyond your academic work. So obviously, you know, you had years of study and exams and assignments. And you moved into a PhD.

At what point? You know, was there an outreach event that you were invited to be part of or...? Or did you write something for a general audience? Like what was it that kind of turned you into this incredibly, you know, productive and involved science communicator that you are today?

Kira (00:08:38)

The thing that really kind of like sparked it and was like, Oh, this is an actual thing for me was Three Minute Thesis. So I was very unlucky during the start of my postgraduate journey, because I started it in January of 2020. And I'm not sure if anyone's familiar with a certain event that happened at that time. But it meant that I didn't really get to see anyone in person in my academic journey for a very long time.

So I didn't get to do any in-person presentations for like the first three years of my research.

Jen (00:09:13)

Wow.

Michael (00:09:13)

Wow.

Kira (00:09:15)

And I like got to do, you know, like Zoom seminars, but it's not really the same when you're just talking to a screen when you're trying to like you know, present your work to someone. You don't get the same feedback, the same, like you know, dopamine rush of everything going well, or if it doesn't.

But I... In 2023, that was sort of like, I was getting into the second year of my PhD. I was like, I need to start doing more presentations because if I'm gonna go to conferences, if I'm gonna, you know, actually be serious about my work, I need to be able to you know, present it to a proper audience and get better at public speaking. 'Cause I also didn't have a lot of public speaking experience at the time as well.

I remember in high school, I had to do an oral presentation, like the first one ever in like year 10. I threw up the morning that I had to do it. And then I was shaking so much. Like I had cue cards in my shaky hands. My leg was just doing this, nonstop for the entire like five minutes that I was talking.

So I was going into this aware that like, Okay, I have a lot of anxiety about this. The only way I'm gonna get better at it is to do more of it. So I signed myself up for Three Minute Thesis.

Jen (00:10:28)

Oh, that's so brave. So brave. Good on you.

Michael (00:10:30)

So as a way to, as a way to just challenge yourself.

Kira (00:10:34)

Yeah. Like a little bit of exposure therapy.

Michael (00:10:37)

Oh, wow. Well done.

Kira (00:10:40)

And turns out that I'm really good at it. And I did really well. I made it to the university finals, got runner up in people's choices [as] you mentioned.

And it was basically, that just proved to me that not only can I do well at public speaking and I'm really good at it, really able to explain my science, but also just sparked that passion that was probably brewing slowly over time.

We're like, Oh, like you know, this is like a... Science communication is a thing that exists. I still at the time wasn't familiar with that term. I think it took like another six months until I knew that term existed.

But then, since then, I just looked for more opportunities and I just found some of the weird and wildest things. Like I did science comedy talks where I did it at the International Comedy Festival and also at the Melbourne Fringe. I signed up for like a bunch of professional development courses in science communication as well. I did yours as well, Jen Martin. Amazing.

Jen (00:11:39)

Yes, I remember. I was very very pleased to see you there.

Kira (00:11:44)

But yeah, I just tried to just do everything I could so I could expose myself to all the different possibilities when it came to science communication and just to up my skillset as well. So I just felt that was incredibly important.

Like not only was I doing all these talks, I also needed to make sure that I was bettering myself along the way. I think I did... almost 150 hours of professional development over the last five years.

Jen (00:12:12)

Wow. Wow.

Michael (00:12:15)

Yeah, it's really incredible. I mean, for any listeners out there, if you're a PhD student or you know, early career researcher and you're kind of wondering like, what science communication opportunities are out there, I think Kira has done almost every single one. And you know, you've documented it really well on your LinkedIn profile. So I really strongly recommend people go and have a look there. You know, there's a section, you know, where you just have it all bullet pointed because people might not be aware of you know, the different opportunities that are out there.

So yeah, kudos to you Kira, for really throwing yourself into the deep end and yeah, overcoming those nerves and going on to put so much into professional development. And you know, it really is paying off. I mean, you've got some really prestigious awards. You know, I mentioned the Superstars of STEM at [the] beginning.

Massive congratulations. You know, for the listeners, this is a highly competitive program that selects you know, really exceptional women and non-binary people in science and provides them with training to really amplify their science communication. So yeah, how did you feel Kira, when you got the news? What does it mean to you?

Kira (00:13:32)

It is an incredible privilege to be named as [a] Superstar of STEM, especially because I was still in my PhD at the time that I was awarded it. And even going into the application process, because it's a lot you have to do. You have to fill out a lot of information in the first stage about like your social profile, about what you've done to empower women in STEM, what you hope to get out of the program.

And then after you submit that, if you're lucky and make it to the second stage, you have to do an interview basically, with people from Science Technology Australia. And it can be a bit nerve wracking doing all of this. And I was definitely very nervous, not only that I made it to the second stage, but that I had then had to wait to find out if I got in or not.

Because they only pick 60 people every two years for this program. And originally, I wouldn't have been considered eligible for this in previous years, but they added an extra little criteria, which was for experience in science communication. And that managed to make me eligible this time. So I figured I'll just give it a go. And if I don't get in, I can just always try again next time.

And then when I got the email that I got in, I... it just like took ages to like properly sink in, like the shock of it. Because I was dealing with a lot of imposter syndrome at the time. Even though I had been you know, doing all these amazing talks, I've been winning awards for it. I've been like given amazing media opportunities as well. At the time, I still felt that imposter syndrome was sinking in, that you know, I wasn't good enough for this, they should be picking someone else to do this.

So it was almost like finally like, that imposter syndrome was sort of getting blasted away almost from this. And I had some validation that you know, I was actually good at this and someone had seen that. And you know, my mind got proven wrong. And now I can say, you know, "I'm amazing at this." And I feel more confident in it.

Jen (00:15:52)

And do you feel less of an imposter now? Because I imagine... I mean obviously, you have huge amounts of evidence that you are very good at what you do. But by the same token, you've just started a new job. And one of the things that we talk about with our students a lot around imposter syndrome is there's sort of this deception that eventually it'll go away because you become experienced enough that you, you know, you no longer worry that you're not going to be good enough or you don't know what to do.

But in fact, that's not how it works in a career as you take more and more steps and do different things or more senior things and you're asked to do new roles that you've never done before. All of those feelings of imposter is and just continually come back because you're in situations where you don't have evidence that you know how to do whatever this thing is.

So how are you feeling in terms of imposter is in these days? 'Cause we like to talk very openly with our students that this is pretty much a universal experience for anyone in academia.

Kira (00:16:41)

Oh, absolutely. And I say the same thing about nerves when it comes to public speaking as well. Like I mentioned before how nervous I used to get. Those nerves are still there for me. I just have to deal with them in different ways now. And I've gotten almost used to them. Like it's more of a comfort now that they're there.

Jen (00:16:57)

Yeah, yeah. Well, if they're not there, it means you probably don't care very much about whatever the talk is, right?

Kira (00:17:02)

Exactly, exactly, yeah. And with the imposter syndrome, I think the main thing that's helped me is becoming more confident in my research and also my expertise in science communication. And the Superstar of STEM program has really helped with that. Like not only enforcing it with me being able to get into the program, but I've had met a lot of amazing people through it. I've been able to do a lot more professional development. I've had a lot more opportunities come my way. And that's sort of helped cement in me that I know what I'm doing, that I have the experience and expertise to back up what I'm saying.

And like, you know, it's still there in the back of your head sometimes with specific things where I still will wonder like, Oh, you know, why did they reach out to me for this? Or you know, am I the right person for this? But I've just gotten to the point where I'll just you know, keep saying yes to these things if they come my way.

Jen (00:17:57)

Yeah.

Kira (00:17:58)

And then just think, Well, you know, if they don't hear from me again, then that's fine.

Jen (00:18:03)

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I think it's just such a fantastic approach and a really good approach to tackling feelings of being an imposter if you do keep saying yes. You know, while setting boundaries and looking after your wellbeing and all of those things.

But when you do say yes and you try things and you realise that most things you can give a really, you know, red hot crack at. And no one's ever going to be perfect at doing anything, but you learn every time you do things.

Kira (00:18:28)

Absolutely. I also find I'm a very self-critical person.

Jen (00:18:33)

Hmm... Of course.

Kira (00:18:33)

So I'm the kind of person that like, immediately after I do a talk, I have already self-analysed everything that I did in that talk and picked out things that I want to change the next time.

Michael (00:18:44)

Yeah, that, it's really interesting. 'Cause I suppose, you know, when you hear self-critical, it's kind of has negative connotations. But actually you've managed to turn that into something useful. So maybe it's about, you know, kind of directing that to be constructive criticism.

'Cause you know, we all know there's examples of good and bad feedback. And we normally think of that in terms of giving that to other people, right? But I guess the same applies to when we're giving ourselves feedback. So it sounds like you've managed to give yourself high quality, constructive feedback.

Kira (00:19:23)

It's been so so important for me as well throughout my journey. Because if I was just negative about myself all the time, then it would just be incredibly discouraging. So I've sort of shifted it to just more so be like, This is what I did right, this is what I can fix for next time.

And it's also helped me when comparing myself to others on my journey too. And I've always discouraged people, like do not compare yourself to other people and try to put yourself down being like, Oh, this person's doing this stuff. Why can't I do that? Or like, you know, This person is like at this stage in their career. Why aren't I? I always look at other people in these amazing, you know, science communication roles or at this stage in their career and think, `Oh, what can I do to get there? Or what are the next steps that I can do to get there? How can I work on myself to get there?`

And I think that's an important mindset that you need to develop. It takes a long time too, 'cause you have to fight your nerves, your imposter syndrome. You have to become more confident in yourself. But once you develop that mindset, it's just like a breath of fresh air.

Jen (00:20:26)

And I also think it's... I think we could reframe it and not say so much that "you are self-critical of yourself" rather than just "you're being reflective". You know, if we just go out and do something and then move on and never think about it again, how do we ever learn? The whole point is that you go out and you do something and then you think about it. And you do give yourself that feedback of this is where I think I could do this better or that's where I actually think I really nailed it. And `Hey, I'm going to give myself a gold star today`. You know, I think being reflective in that way is really really important.

But Kira, I'm really keen to ask you. You said before you've done a lot of professional development training. You know, so not only are you putting yourselves out there doing things like FameLab and the 3MT and other things where you're... and the comedy where you're really putting yourself out there. But you did a lot of training to back that up. What's the most useful thing? Could you pick out one thing that you learned in all of this training? Was it something that switched, you know, flipped a switch for you on thinking about nerves or was it some practical advice? Like if you had to pick one thing that you learned in all of the training that you've done, what would it be?

Kira (00:21:28)

Ooh, it's hard 'cause there's a lot.

Jen (00:21:29)

Yeah, absolutely.

Kira (00:21:31)

I would say probably the most important is well, like the thing that sort of stuck with me and helped me with my science communication journey is about storytelling. And I think that's a really really interesting aspect, that even though I came from like an English writing background, it's something that I never thought could be integrated into science. It's like the importance of storytelling and how to effectively get across your work in such an interesting and engaging way.

Michael (00:22:02)

Yeah, yeah, And I think the first time I met you Kira, we were doing, both doing keynote presentations at a conference. And you had a really interesting story about thunderstorm asthma, which I briefly mentioned in the opening. And maybe listeners have been thinking, you know, ever since I mentioned that, what is thunderstorm asthma?

So, you know, you're out there, you're doing so much science communication and a lot of the time you are talking about your area of research, thunderstorm asthma. I have to ask, what is thunderstorm asthma?

Kira (00:22:37)

Absolutely. So probably the easiest way to explain it, it's a condition that's triggered by a high amount of allergens like pollen during a thunderstorm, obviously. And the dangerous part about it is that if you have hay fever, it can actually trigger severe asthma attacks in you, even if you've never been asthmatic in your life.

The events that cause these are called thunderstorm asthma events. And while they're incredibly rare, they are unfortunately very common here in Australia. Especially we had one back in 2016 in Melbourne where thousands of people were hospitalised from severe asthma attacks. We had ambulances backed up for hours, so people weren't getting the help they needed and unfortunately 10 people passed away from it.

So a lot of my work is into understanding why these events occur and better ways to detect or monitor the allergens that can trigger it. So then we can hopefully prevent these hospitalisations or deaths in future events.

Michael (00:23:34)

Yeah, it's really fascinating. Yeah, I didn't realise that when I moved to Melbourne from Ireland that it was a bit of a hotspot for events like thunderstorm asthma, but oh well.

Kira (00:23:47)

Too late now.

Michael (00:23:49)

Too late now. Yeah, I love it too much here.

Yeah, so look Kira. You know, we kind of touched on this earlier, a lot of your accomplishments and the fact that you're you know, so early in your career, you've really just gotten your PhD. And I suppose you know, there might be listeners out there who are thinking, Wow, how do you balance it all?

What advice do you have to people who are also early in their career, they're looking to you know, fit some more SciComm into you know, what they're already doing? Maybe they're a little bit nervous about it, but they're kind of keen to do a little bit more. What advice would you have for those people?

Kira (00:24:32)

I would say don't do everything that I did. I was very fortunate that I was able to take on a lot of opportunities during my PhD, but that was mostly because I had a lot of delays with my work. So I had a lot of free time that had to be filled and I'm someone that always has to be productive and doing something. So I would just sign up for everything.

The best advice I can give to people other than that is if someone comes your way with opportunity, say yes to it. And the other reason I would say don't say yes is if you feel that it's not going to benefit you in any particular way. So you always want to outweigh the time commitment to the potential benefits that, it's going to come your way.

So if you're doing a professional development course, that might just take like an hour out of your day, I feel like that's going to be really beneficial. It's going to take a short amount of time to complete and you're potentially going to get a lot of knowledge out of that.

And there's always so many different opportunities out there. The hard part is just finding them. So I found LinkedIn has been an incredible source for being able to find a lot of opportunities because there's a lot of different organisations out there that run different courses, some free, some paid. There's a lot of different amazing SciComm individuals out there to also run their own training courses as well.

Even your own institution that you're working at, if you're at a university, even a research institution, sometimes they hold their own internal training seminars as well. And I find a lot of organisations are getting better at doing that, at running those communication training courses within the institution because they're starting to understand the actual value of having good communicators in research.

Jen (00:26:15)

Yeah.

Michael (00:26:16)

Yeah.

Jen (00:26:17)

We tell our students all the time. There's really clear evidence to show that the number one skill that employers of STEMM graduates are looking for is communication.

So the more experience you can build up, the more expertise you can build up, the more evidence you can build up of being a competent and confident communicator, the better.

Michael (00:26:36)

Yeah, absolutely. So really quickly Kira, before we switch gears a little bit and move to our quick questions. You know, where do you hope your career is going to take you in the future?

Kira (00:26:48)

I always get people asking me this and I never have the answer for them. Like, even as I was getting near the end of my PhD, I still didn't even know what exactly I was going to get into afterwards. Like, I think I applied for so many different jobs in so many different fields that I was almost just like throwing a dart at a dart board. Just wondering like, you know, will I work in research admin? Will I work in communications? Will I just stay in research for the rest of my life? It's so many different opportunities out there, but I was also just trying to challenge myself to with applying for stuff outside of my field.

And another advice that I just remembered... I did a training or a workshop on just like applying for jobs. And it wasn't just like how to write a CV. It was more so the attitude when it comes to actually applying for jobs. And an interesting thing I took away from it is that women will only apply for jobs if they meet between 80 and 100% of the criteria on job. Most of the time, 100%. Men will sometimes apply, they only meet maybe like 20% of the stuff on a job criteria. And that made me realise that I was potentially letting a lot of these opportunities slip away because I was so focused on making sure that I hit every single thing.

So I started applying for so many things outside of my field, like this particular job. I work in grant management now, and I don't have a grant management background. I haven't written a grant ever. I know what a grant is. But yeah, I was able to land this job because even I didn't have that expertise going into it, I had that communication background to back me up and was able to still sell myself off that.

Michael (00:28:38)

Yeah, that's really great. And it just goes to show how transferable all those skills are. That's really wonderful, Kira. And I feel like we could continue chatting indefinitely, but we have gotten to the time of the podcast where we're going to switch gears. We are going to move to our quick questions.

Drum roll... Are you ready?

Kira (00:28:59)

Let's go.

Michael (00:29:02)

Okay, so these are the real tough questions now, Kira.

Kira (00:29:04)

Oh no.

Michael (00:29:05)

Number one. What is your favorite emoji to use?

Kira (00:29:11)

Oh, I like the guy with the sunglasses.

Jen (00:29:13)

'Cause you're so cool, right?

Kira (00:29:15)

Yeah. It's just that... You can use it in so many different contexts.

And it's just so fun to use. I like that one a lot.

Jen (00:29:23)

Yeah, no, that is a good emoji. Good choice.

Question number two. What daily habits do you have that improve the way you work? Is there one daily habit that you would recommend other people try out?

Kira (00:29:36)

I make a to-do list every morning of stuff that I need to get done. And even just minor things has been really beneficial, especially for my mental health.

Just minor things like... You know, not something like getting out of bed, but just like you know, vacuuming around the house or like taking the rubbish out. It's just really beneficial being able to just take stuff off the list.

Jen (00:29:58)

I'm so with you. Isn't the first thing that you're meant to write on your to-do list, write to-do list?

And then you get to tick it off as soon as you finish your list.

Kira (00:30:07)

Yes, yes, feels so good.

Michael (00:30:10)

You could even put like, "Make myself a delicious coffee" on the to-do list.

Jen (00:30:13)

Yeah, absolutely.

Michael (00:30:15)

Yeah, okay, let me write that one down.

Michael (00:30:19)

Okay Kira, if you could instantly become an expert in any other field, what would it be?

Kira (00:30:26)

Oh, probably history, especially like Roman or Greek history. That's something that I was really passionate about when I was younger.

And I feel like because I've gone like so far into science, I've kind of left that on the back burner. So that's something that I'm really really interested in 'cause I just find it so fascinating.

Jen (00:30:44)

Well, I'm sure that there will be times in your future that you can re-engage with your history. I have great faith.

Kira (00:30:52)

Oh, thank you. I'll have to read the Iliad again. I have it somewhere around the house.

Jen (00:30:54)

Exactly. Yeah, I read it in my classics study. See, that's the joy of an arts degree.

Okay, next question, Kira. What is one piece of advice that you would give yourself, your younger self, when you were starting out in science?

Kira (00:31:10)

Ooh, I would probably just say, just don't do anything different.

Jen (00:31:16)

Oh, that's so nice. That makes me happy.

Kira (00:31:17)

Yeah, I... I'm someone where I just wouldn't want to go back and change anything 'cause I would feel like there's just almost like that butterfly effect that if you change like one small thing, it could have a big impact on your life.

And I feel like even the... You know, while there's been highs, there have been lows. And that's going to happen with any aspect of your life. But those lows help make you the person that you are today.

Jen (00:31:47)

Yeah, for sure.

Kira (00:31:48)

And I don't think I would go back and change that for anything.

Michael (00:31:52)

That's really good to hear.

Alrighty Kira, final question. What is your very top tip for communicating effectively about science?

Kira (00:32:04)

Oh, I have so many.

Jen (00:32:06)

You only get to choose one.

Kira (00:32:08)

I would say talk to someone like you would talk to your parents or your friends. And I think that's a really good step when it comes to just learning how to make science more accessible to people. It's just finding different ways to explain complex topics that you know, someone on the street could understand or your parents could understand if they don't come from a STEM background.

And I just find that like being able to just break down those barriers or like those constructs that you have when you're in research, where like you have to use as much jargon as possible. You have to use like these super long sentences. You know, gene names and all that. Breaking through that I think is a really good first step. Getting into science communication and just learning how to do it effectively.

Jen (00:32:55)

Yeah, completely agree. And I think your suggestion is a good one because actually practicing with people who care about you and are interested in what you're doing, but don't necessarily have any background in science. They are fantastic people to practice with 'cause they will listen and they will care. And they will give you yeah, kind yet constructive feedback. So I think that's great advice.

Michael (00:33:17)

Well Kira, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast. Really really enjoyed our chat.

And you know, I know you said you don't know where your career may lead you in the future, but we'll certainly be watching.

So yeah, thank you for sharing your time and advice with us today.

Kira (00:33:33)

Oh, thanks for having me.

Jen (00:33:34)

Yeah thanks, Kira. We're so proud of everything that you're doing. And we don't mean in a creepy way. We mean in a very encouraging, supportive way. We will be watching you. And all the best, all the best for everything.

Kira (00:33:45)

Thank you.

Michael (00:33:46)

Yeah, I hope that didn't come across as being creepy.

Kira (00:33:50)

I'll just... I'll forget about it, it's fine.

Jen (00:33:53)

Thanks Kira.

Michael (00:33:54)

Thanks, Kira.

Michael (00:34:01)

Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, we'd love you to tell a friend about the podcast or leave us a review, or you can reach out to us on social media. And also a big thank you to our production team, Steven Tang and Madeleine Kelly.