Episode 149 - Interview with marine biologist and science comedian Forrest Shaw

Transcript

Jen (00:00:11)

Hello hello everybody, it is my favorite day of the week because today I am in the Let's Talk SciComm studio with my ever wonderful friend and colleague, Dr. Michael Wheeler. Good morning, Michael.

Michael (00:00:24)

Good morning, Jen. Yes, my favorite day of the week as well. I also love being in the studio. And today we have a particularly interesting and unique guest I would say, unique as a science communicator.

Today, we're going to be speaking with someone who spent over a decade studying the ocean and then decided that the best way to get people to care about it was to make them laugh about it.

Jen (00:00:50)

That sounds excellent to me. I love it already.

Michael (00:00:53)

Yes. Who doesn't love laughing about, you know, who doesn't love laughing in general, right? So this is... our guest today is Forrest Shaw, who's a stand up comedian and writer whose comedy career began after spending 10 years as a marine and environmental biologist in his hometown of Miami, in Florida, in the United States.

And during that time, he worked across an extraordinary range of marine science. So from manatees to seagrass meadows, coral reefs, water quality, sea turtles. So it's safe to say he knows his way around the ocean.

And at some point then, Forrest made a clear pivot that I think a lot of scientists, you know, quietly daydream about and certainly are very interested in, but perhaps hesitant to do, right?

And that is a move into stand up comedy. And I think Forrest has thrived. He's performed at some of the biggest comedy festivals in the world, including Netflix is A Joke Fest, Moontower Comedy Festival, Cluster Fest, and the Just for Laughs Festival in Montreal, and Bridgetown Comedy Festival. His debut comedy special Poor Decisions is available to watch right now on Amazon.

But Forrest was recently here in Australia Jen, for the most recent Adelaide Fringe Festival with a show called The Ocean Hates You!. Did you know? So...

Jen (00:02:30)

I feel personally affronted, I have to say. We're going to have to ask about that title.

Michael (00:02:36)

I think it's a fantastic title. It's a science-based comedy show. It's about pollution, overfishing, climate change, sharks, and why talking about the ocean doesn't have to feel like going to a funeral. Forrest, welcome to the podcast. And how did your show go over in Adelaide?

Forrest (00:02:54)

Hello. Thanks for having me on the podcast. I'm happy to be here. It was a great introduction. Sometimes when you hear things you've done, you're like, oh, I'm... I haven't done bad. You know, it's nice to hear that, you know? It sounds like...

Jen (00:03:07)

Is there a part of you that's like hang on, was that actually me or did some other really cool guy do all those things?

Forrest (00:03:13)

I... Okay. As a comic, a comedian which I have been without a day job for 16 years now. Part of being a comedian is low self-esteem issues. So it is nice sometimes be like, Oh I have accomplished some things, you know? Instead of like the normal thoughts that go through my head.

Jen (00:03:28)

Yeah.

Forrest (00:03:28)

You know, imposter syndrome, everyone has those. I remember when I used to be a marine biologist and I would be standing up in front of a room talking about manatees, I'm like I don't belong here, but I knew what I was talking about. I just didn't think I'd, you know, that thing.

But the show went great. So I... When I started comedy, I was not, I had jokes about my experiences as being a marine biologist and working in the ocean and working on the water. But my whole act was not centered around that. I was figuring out how to tell jokes and become a comedian because it was a whole new world of something I'd never done.

And sometime, the beginning of last year... It had always been in my head like, Hey, I should do a show that combines both of my lives that I've lived. And sometime around the beginning of last year, I started taking on this task of writing a show.

And then I was like, you know, I'm going to put some visuals to it and videos and I'm going to have trivia during the show. And then I'm going to have like a, maybe a heckler that's a dolphin that interrupts the show. These are all things I have on the show. And became this huge past...

Jen (00:04:29)

Hang on, can we just clarify here? Is this someone in a dolphin suit?

Forrest (00:04:33)

Yes.

Jen (00:04:33)

Or is this an animated dolphin or just, you know.

Forrest (00:04:36)

It's somebody in an inflatable dolphin suit, one of those. And it's yeah, and it, it interrupts the show and I won't give away too much. So you guys consider it, but it interrupts the show. It gets upset, giving away, it's a movie everyone's going to see next week.

And it, it kind of insults me. It tells me I'm not funny. And then it apologises. And then it goes, it talks about how dolphins and among other animals, sharks and sea lions get blamed for eating all the fish by humans. And then, and a lot of cases they kill those animals and that it's, you know, it's really the humans that are doing it. And then he tells a few bad jokes and I try to tell a joke and then he gets mad at me and leaves, but it's fun. That's not the whole show. That's just a portion of the show.

But I really, you know, I went to the Adelaide Fringe Festival to kind of get it in order because it was something I had never really done in the world of comedy before. There was a lot of moving parts. So this is a long way to say it went well.

If you went to one of the first two or three shows, people still enjoyed it. But there were some hiccups, you know, where I'm like figuring out technology and this and that. But by the end of the run, it went really well. I did it one time in Melbourne too, at the Comic's Lounge. I was just doing my regular stand-up there.

And now I've been back in the States. I've hit the ground running. I have a bunch of shows coming up here all up and down the West Coast of the United States and Florida and a lot of coastal towns is where I'm hitting first. And it's going great. And I did it on Earth Day in Miami to a sold-out crowd. And great. It went great. And yeah, I'm very happy about it because it's combined my entire life into one thing. And I think that's a cool thing.

Jen (00:06:10)

Which I can 100% relate to Forrest. So I am one of these people who thought I would be a marine biologist. You know, I was snorkelling from the age of three or four, scuba diving as soon as I could, studied marine biology at uni, volunteering at our local marine discovery centre.

You know, I am absolutely that person and I ended up taking a different track for reasons we won't go into. But I can understand the marine biology and how rewarding that time must have been and that it was part of your life from the very beginning.

What I find less easier to relate to is, you know, you've just talked about imposterism. What the hell possessed you to decide I'm going to give stand-up comedy a go? Because that just sounds absolutely terrifying to me.

So I'd love to hear your experience of that career pivot that Michael talked about and how did you come across or come to the conclusion that stand-up was going to be a useful way to change people's minds about the ocean and do it, you know, protect the oceans there from a different approach, I guess?

Forrest (00:07:12)

Well, so stand-up comedy, I... There was an overlap from when I was still working as a biologist and doing comedy. I couldn't, as they say, you don't just quit your day job right away. And it's very difficult. I had never even been on stage at a talent show, maybe once or twice in my life. Like I had no, I didn't even know how to hold a microphone. So I had a big learning curve.

And my grandfather had passed away right around when I, before I started doing standup comedy. And what happened was I was scanning all these photos, you know, people scan photos and they put together a little memorial kind of thing. They'll show it like a memorial.

I mean, and he was one of these people that just like did everything. Like if we would go to a restaurant, he would eat the weirdest thing on the menu and be like, Yeah, I can cook chicken at home. Why would I get that? You know, he was about experiences and doing things and living life.

And that really inspired me to, I literally made a list. I've never done anything like this. I mean, these are all these things that I wanted to do and not regret when I get older. And because there were things that in my head, I said I want to try this. So I signed up for an open mic. I practice in front of my cats. And, um...

Jen (00:08:24)

Did they like it? Were they appreciative?

Forrest (00:08:24)

I mean, they seemed to like it. I don't know.

Jen (00:08:24)

I'm sure they did.

Forrest (00:08:24)

I wrote jokes about them in it. Some of my first jokes were about having cats and figuring out a way to tell them that they were adopted, you know, which... There you go. Killing with my original jokes. I'm sure I'm pulling them way better now even in that than I did originally so...

But I, it was a terrifying experience. I think I stared into the lights all the time but I liked it. And I met some people that I kind of vibed with and I was like, Oh, I think I'm gonna stick with this. And about two or three years in, right about when I was going to maybe quit, it kind of, everything started to click. And I was like, Oh, I can do this. I've figured out kind of the matrix now of what's going on. And I'm not, I'm not great yet, but I know what I should be doing.

And so then I just got good at [comedy]. And I always was trying to tell like a joke about climate change or something about, I don't know, manatees or something like that. And sometimes they'd work, but it's difficult to do those.

It's difficult to do jokes where you're trying to say something. I don't want to say meaningful because that sounds kind of, but yeah, but it is meaning... Like something [that's] based on facts. Because as a former scientist, it's one of the hardest things was like is this accurate as I'm telling a joke and other people are like, what do you care if that like, I want to make sure that's the male and not the female, you know.

So once I got good at comedy, I was like, I started doing more and more of these jokes. And then I eventually was like, you know what? I really want to use this platform and my ability to be able to talk to people about something that I think people are upset about.

I think people wake up in the morning and they scroll through their social media or their emails or the news and they literally feel helpless or overwhelmed. And I think that that is a feeling that I can empathise and understand.

But I also think there's a lot of people doing a lot of good things. And I think talking about stuff that is upsetting and bad is the best. You know, don't leave it in the darkness as I say. And so I figured Hey, you know, people that come to my show might learn a little.

Some people might not learn something, some people might learn a lot. But you're gonna laugh and you're gonna feel better and you're gonna feel as a community with other people. And I think the community is the important thing because scrolling through your phone's great, looking at people that are photographers that do ocean photography. I follow all these accounts and I love them and...

But you still don't feel like you're, you know, because you're not with people. You can't touch them or like sit next to them and have a conversation. So that's why it inspired me to do that.

Michael (00:10:54)

Yeah, I think that's great. You know, it's really admirable that that's one of your goals is, you know, it's to make people feel better, but also to educate them as well. So it's not necessarily just about telling jokes, but it's about educating.

So with your most recent show then, The Ocean Hates You!. I mean, you're dealing with some pretty serious topics there, right? And I guess these might be some of the topics that people are feeling a bit down about as they're scrolling, you know. They're reading about pollution, climate change, overfishing. But these are the very topics that you're getting people to laugh about.

So, I mean, is there a bit of a fine line there between you want to make something genuinely funny because it's a comedy show but at the same time, you don't want to undermine the seriousness of the science or the situation. How do you kind of tread that balance?

Forrest (00:11:53)

Yeah. Well, that was... Part of the difficulty in putting the show together was... I think the first iterations of it were, yeah, was really, felt like a lecture. You know, I wrote pages and pages and pages of stuff and I would read this back. I'm like, Well, this isn't that funny. I want to make sure it's funny.

And so in joke structure, not to get too deep into a joke but you know, there's a setup and then there's the punchline. And then there's a couple other jokes after that. Sometimes they'll call them tags or whatever. And my setups ended up being like this really long, and the payoff wasn't good enough, you know?

And so I said, well these are the people that might come out to my show. People like, like I said, there's going to be those three types: people that are a hundred percent invested in this, this is what their life is. People that are casually invested in this. They also know some of this. And some people that... I had some people in Miami just showed up, they didn't even know what the show was, which was great.

One of them was a semi climate change denier. And by the end of the show, they were like, I don't know if they like went home and started you know, bought an electric car or whatever, but I think that they they enjoyed the show. And he told me that he saw some things in a different perspective, which I was like, Wow, that's not even like, that wasn't even like a thought that that would happen. I was like, Oh, that's cool.

But I did realise as the shows come along, I was like funny is the important thing for me as a comedian. So I want to make this funny because that makes it engaging. I can say over and over, "Oh yeah, we're extracting and burning fossil fuels, the temperatures are a record..." And I do say some of that stuff, too. I have to. But I got to make sure I get to something funny at some point. Otherwise, it's like, what are we doing there? This is just a bad TED Talk.

So I wanted to be funny first. But I also want to, what I also, what I told myself is like, I'm going to give myself moments within the show and a specific moment at the end where I have, where I kind of gather all the thoughts together, I have some calls to action.

Another thing that I'm working on doing now is working with local organisations, whether they're conservation organisations, research organisations. We're getting these, what do you call it? Reusable water bottles, because obviously that's a big thing, plastic pollution in the ocean. And they're going to say The Ocean Hates You! on its side.

And half of all of the proceeds or three quarters or whatever number we come up with, everything will go to these different organisations. And that way we can have, we can have clear focus, calls to actions locally at the places I'm at. Because I'm going to be traveling all over the country. I don't always know what's going in, on and off the coast of Seattle. You know, I read up on stuff.

And I think, so I think as far as this show is concerned, I want it to be funny first with the correct information but funny and then kind of like think of like a, like a rom-com, you know? It's like, it's funny. And then at the end you cry at that one scene. And like, that's how, that's how I structured the show. It took me a while to get there, to figure that out. But it's, it is working that way. And umm, so that yeah. And also we're punching up, you know? You know, the term punching up, punching down, you know. Do you know that term as a comedy term? Yeah.

Michael (00:15:04)

Can you maybe explain it for anyone who's, hasn't heard that term before?

Forrest (00:15:10)

So it's not a hard rule, but it's a rule that I think is a good rule to follow in comedy is you should always be punching up. And that means if you are targeting specific groups of people or organisations, they should be more powerful... Above you, basically. You're punching up.

Not versus like marginalised groups, like somebody that might be doing, you know, bits and making fun of I don't know, maybe LGBTQ community or something like that, you know. Although... And obviously there are people that are in those communities and they have their act and they can make jokes coming from that perspective. But someone like me that is not in that community wouldn't just be like, "Hey, you know, what's?" You know.

So it is... I would say easier to punch down. That's why people do that sometimes in their comedy. But I'm not doing that. I'm talking about corporations. I'm talking about oil companies. I'm talking about fishing fleets. You now, it's... So I'm not saying it's easy to write these jokes, but it's easy to find the targets and not care. Like I don't care if I'm talking about Exxon or Shell Oil or the President of the United States or any of these people that are just doing all of these terrible things just in the name of making extra... You know, a profit and marginalising people and at the expense of people's health.

So to me it's like, it's fun, where I'm just like "Oh yeah, screw these people, you know?" And I think people are on board with that, I think all people are on board that. Because especially now I mean, you know, as you guys all know, things have never been better in America uh...

Jen (00:16:48)

Ain't that an understatement.

Forrest (00:16:51)

Yeah.

Jen (00:16:53)

Forrest, it's really interesting because earlier you were talking about kind of the experience of imposterism that we all have, but I really feel like what a privilege it is listening to you as someone who's clearly grappled for a long time now with how can I use comedy to really interrogate some of these big picture issues? You know, I feel like you're really giving us a masterclass as someone who's tried a lot of things and probably failed quite a few times but is slowly coming up with this clear idea of what works.

And I'm really interested in understanding more about your use of comedy to kind of... Well, you're talking about punching up, but I guess also to kind of dismantle myths. I guess what I'm thinking about is I know that you talk about sharks. I know you have a strong interest in sharks.

And we've actually interviewed last year Melissa Cristina Márquez, an amazing shark biologist who's, you know, done a lot of public communication work. And at the time she'd just written an article talking about the anniversary of Jaws and the fact that you know, shark fear is this absolutely perfect case study in how poor communication or communication that's being driven by different agendas can result in this really deep embedding in culture where people are so frightened about sharks, even though in most cases sharks aren't a very big risk to many of us.

I guess, like are there other ocean myths out there that you've come across that are equally stubborn that you think comedy can help to tackle. And I mean, maybe you want to talk about sharks as well? I'm not sure.

Forrest (00:18:24)

Yeah, I mean well first of all Jaws is probably the number one culprit, that the movie.

Jen (00:18:33)

Yeah. I mean, she'd just written, Melissa had just written an article at the time. It must've been close to the anniversary, whatever year anniversary it was talking about, you know, how hugely problematic that was as a movie and what it's led to in terms of people's understanding of sharks.

Forrest (00:18:48)

And it's my understanding too that almost everybody involved with that movie, actors, maybe even Steven Spielberg has said something. There was... He was Australian. He was... I think he was Australian. He was like a consultant for it because he had been bitten by a shark and they wanted to know this experience and stuff. And I remember hearing a podcast with him.

But Jaws was also the first summer blockbuster. It was like the OG summer blockbuster. So all summer blockbusters also spawned from Jaws. So sharks also get blamed for, you know, the Fast and the Furious franchise which I don't think is fair, you know. So... all right, tell a joke.

No, but I think that I talk about sharks specifically in the show, near the top of the show because the ocean hates you because that very thing. It's called The Ocean Hates You!, the show. And of course the first things people, some people would say is "Yeah well, sharks hate us because they they bite us, you know, and they kill some people." And it's like you said, I'm like "you'd be so lucky".

Jen (00:19:53)

Yeah, yeah. Imagine if you could have a lottery ticket with how likely it is that you're going to get bitten by a shark, they're not good odds.

Forrest (00:19:59)

Yeah, just being bit by one is not good odds, let alone, I mean... You know, and I know there was some incidents in the Sydney Harbor this year with some bull sharks after some flooding and particularly, you know, just conditions were ripe for that to happen. And I know unfortunately there was at least a young kid that lost his life. So it's a touchy subject because you know, people had been impacted by it.

Jen (00:20:23)

Of course.

Forrest (00:20:24)

But to think that we should fear these animals. That first of all, there's how many species of sharks? 500, over 500? And it's really the bull, the white shark, and the tiger that we have any sort of interaction with that would be considered negative.

And as we know, or people in this podcast I would hope now is that these aren't acts of like vengeance or you know, they're seeking them out. It's usually mistaken identity or bad visibility or something like that.

And so it's just unfortunate that these amazing animals that have been around for so long and are so diverse and so important to the ocean have been villainised this way. And so that's why I wanted to talk about it and make jokes about it, you know? In my act. I think one of the things I say in the show is that "I get it".

I mean, if you look at a shark, it's... If you look at a white shark, you're not like, Oh, wow, I'm just going to go... It is intimidating looking and it is to be respected. It's like a whole, its whole face is just teeth, you know? And I say, and in my show I'm like "If sharks had you know, puppy faces instead of their normal faces, instead of blaming them for biting us, we'd make excuses and it'll be like ahh, it wasn't its fault, you know. There are no bad sharks, only bad swimmers."

So I think that's part of it. It's like a barracuda, too. Are there barracudas in Australia? Or do you know what I'm talking about?

Jen (00:21:50)

Yes.

Forrest (00:21:51)

Yeah, I wasn't sure if... Man. I know, I know. I'm not, again, I'm not saying that'd be wear a bunch of jewelry and swim around barracudas but man, there is no scarier looking fish than a barracuda with that jaw line.

But most of these animals want nothing to do with us. They're just curious if anything. So yeah, that's why I really wanted to highlight sharks because, you know, we kill millions and millions and millions, upon millions of them a year. And I think it's five to six on average humans unfortunately meet their fate to a shark and...

Jen (00:22:22)

And look, as you say, we're not trying to diminish those awful, awful events. And of course, if it's someone that you care about, that is life changing in the worst possible way. But when we step back and look at the big picture, the risks are small. And it's a shame that so many people are so frightened of them because it's not something that's needed.

Forrest (00:22:44)

Yeah, yeah. And I umm, that's why I said it's a tricky situation, like telling, making jokes about it. Because I don't know, the more I do this show, there is possible that someone could be in the crowd that maybe had, was bitten by a shark or has family member or something like that.

So I don't say that, that's dumb. By the way, I had, I did a show, gosh what's his name? He worked, he had lost his arm and his leg in the Sydney Harbor. It's not Navy SEALs, that's the US, but the elite fighting force that you guys have in Australia. Paul Gelder I think is his name. I can't look it up right now. But he had his arm and his leg taken by a bull shark in Sydney Harbor where I think he was cleaning boats, like military boats.

And now he's an advocate. He flies around the world and is a shark advocate. And you know, brings, I think last time when I met him, he was bringing celebrities in to do some cage diving with sharks because, you know, bringing in these high profile people to highlight these amazing animals and show them in reality.

Jen (00:23:45)

Wow. what a powerful response to that sort of traumatic experience, amazing.

Forrest (00:23:50)

I know, amazing. It's a, yeah, you're going to go one or the other, you know, it's like.

And nobody would believe that... Sorry.

Jen (00:23:55)

Yeah. No one could ever blame you for taking the reverse response.

Michael (00:24:03)

And Forrest before we move to the quick questions, I really do quickly want to ask you, you know, if you have any quick pieces of advice for scientists who maybe want to incorporate a little bit more humor into their science. Maybe it's not fully like go down the stand-up comedy route, but I think there's a place for humor in, you know, academic talks at conferences. Any quick tips there?

Forrest (00:24:27)

Yeah, well... Yeah, I think the way you find out something is funny or not is you have to say it to people and say it to people you don't know. Not to your partner that laughs at everything or that friend that thinks everything you say is hilarious.

So if you really wanted to start incorporating jokes or humor into it, there's a lot of options you can do. In every city probably in the world, there's a comedy class that you can take. And although a lot of the stuff I would say in some of those are kind of, you know, whatever, it'll at least force you to write jokes and get up in front of strangers and do it.

Or you can just go to an open mic. There are open mics in every city that I've traveled around this planet. I've done comedy on almost every continent, and I've seen open mics almost everywhere. And open mics is where you go to fail and learn and do stuff.

So you just got to do it. You just got to force yourself to do it. And if there's somebody that is like telling you you can't do it or making fun of you or something and maybe you're not good at it, that's just because they're probably... They're jealous. They want to do something themselves. I mean, those people, they don't matter. But I think, or their opinions don't matter. But you got to do it. There's no easier... It's like, it's, you just, you gotta, you gotta sit there and write.

And if you do want to... Also a good practice is wake up in the morning, have some ideas, premises as I call them. This is what I want to talk about. I want to talk about, you know, the algal bloom in Southern Australia, which was, looks like it's finally maybe dissipating or something. Okay. That's what I want to talk about. Then you wake up in the morning for half an hour, write down some funny stuff and whatever you're giving a lecture on that you want to make funnier. But I would also say if you're giving truly a lecture and people aren't coming there for comedy, don't do jokes the whole time either.

Michael (00:26:20)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Forrest (00:26:20)

Get icebreakers, have icebreakers, maybe a closer or something in the middle. A callback, you know. The callback is, you know, a joke. You've told a joke earlier and you reference it later. Those, those kill. So, you know, if you can come up with something like that, it's good. But it's... There's no easy way. You just got to go do it. Just got to bite the bullet.

Michael (00:26:34)

Just get out there and do it. Yeah, I think that's great advice Forrest. And I feel like we could continue talking about this for a long time, but we can't let you go until we ask you our quick questions. So these are a bit more lighthearted. Quick questions, quick answers. Are you ready?

Forrest (00:27:01)

Yeah, real quick answers, right? You don't want me to go on and on, right?

Michael (00:27:04)

If you can. Quick answers if you can.

Forrest (00:27:07)

Got it.

Michael (00:27:07)

But, you know, if you feel like you've got more to say, that's also fine too.

Alrighty Forrest, what is your favorite way to switch off after a long day?

Forrest (00:27:16)

Oh, I like playing Chess, online chess. That's very...

Michael (00:27:22)

I also like playing Chess, yeah, but I'm terrible at it.

Forrest (00:27:28)

Me too. Me too. We should link up.

Jen (00:27:30)

I think you two should play together. I think that's the perfect solution.

Michael (00:27:33)

Yeah.

Jen (00:27:34)

Okay Forrest, let's just imagine that aliens are going to land tomorrow and you get the chance to share something of your work with them. What's the first thing you're going to show them?

Forrest (00:27:43)

Of my work? Uh oh, I was going to say tacos. I didn't know it was my work. I think I would... I think I would show them a thresher shark. You mean a joke from my show, or what do you...? Like I'm not...

Jen (00:27:58)

Just anything. What do aliens need to know about Forrest Shaw and what he cares about?

Forrest (00:28:03)

Oh, about me. I'm sorry. I didn't hear that.

Jen (00:28:06)

Oh, no no. Like your work, what you do in the world.

Forrest (00:28:09)

I try. I would... What would I show? Okay. I think I would show them, I love thresher sharks. Those are like my favorite animals in the ocean. I would show them how cool those are. And hopefully they would love sharks and they wouldn't be killing them. They decide not to kill them at the rate we're killing them at.

Jen (00:28:26)

Excellent plan.

Michael (00:28:28)

That's great. Alrighty Forrest, final question. What is your very top tip for communicating effectively about science?

Forrest (00:28:37)

That scientists don't know everything. I think that's important to let people know that. Because I think people think that that's what scientists... But they... You know, but they don't deal in opinions. They deal with facts, you know.

And I think that that is an important thing to remember in this day and age of how things are being reported. And there's been a lot of problems because we... people don't know that. Maybe we do, people listening to this podcast, but a lot of the general public thinks otherwise, so yeah.

Jen (00:29:18)

Yeah, I think that's such an important point to make Forrest. Look, thank you Forrest. I would love to keep chatting. I feel like there's all sorts of other things we'd love to speak with you about, so maybe we can entice you to come back and chat with us another time.

Forrest (00:29:31)

Great.

Jen (00:29:31)

But we'll just say a massive thanks for making the time to join us across time zones. We really hope that we will get to see you back in Australia doing another comedy show. Michael and I certainly love to have a good laugh, so we will be there.

And just thanks for the work that you're doing in the world. There's a million and one ways to make the world a better place. And I absolutely think that combining your skills in comedy and your passion for the ocean and all of its inhabitants is a really very useful thing to be doing in the world. So thank you on behalf of the planet for being awesome. And thank you for making time to chat with us today. It's been fantastic.

Forrest (00:30:06)

Thank you. Thanks for having me on here. I really enjoyed doing this.

Michael (00:30:08)

Thanks Forrest. That was a wonderful chat.

Michael (00:30:33)

Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, we'd love you to tell a friend about the podcast or leave us a review. And you can reach out to us on social media.

And we're very excited to announce that we're launching a new newsletter called the ChitChat. Check out the link in the show notes or our posts on Instagram.

And also a big thank you to our production team, Steven Tang and Madeleine Kelly.