Episode 150 - Listen To This If… You’re Struggling With Perfectionism

Transcript

Jen (00:00:10)

Hello friends, and welcome to another episode of Listen to This If from us, Michael and Jen, the team at Let's Talk SciComm. And this is our Friday five minute fix where we pick one thing and have a chat about how we think you might tackle it.

And today we are talking about what do you do if you are struggling with perfectionism, which let's face it Michael, we all have times when we struggle from perfectionism. I think it just kind of goes with the territory, doesn't it?

Michael (00:00:38)

I think it does. And I don't think it is necessarily a terrible thing all the time. It probably means that you care deeply about what you're working on. And I think perfectionism is not that far away from excellence, right? And I really love this quote, "Don't let perfection get in the way of excellence".

And I just think we have to be kinder to ourselves. I think that is probably the key. And, you know, we're probably our own harshest critics. And the reason why we can't move past something is because we want it to be perfect. We don't want it to be criticised. But, you know, we're our own harshest critics. So be kinder to yourself.

And, you know, I always like this idea of if a friend came to you and said, "I'm really struggling with perfectionism. I'm working on this thing. I can't make any progress". What advice would you give them? And then turn that back on yourself.

Jen (00:01:45)

Yeah, we're always so good at being kind to other people, aren't we? And we are less good at being kind to ourselves.

Michael (00:01:51)

Yeah.

Jen (00:01:51)

Yeah, I really like your quote Michael. The other one I really like is "Done is better than perfect". Because, you know, I guess I think about it in terms of some of the writing that I've done over the years or our podcast or the reels we make for this podcast.

Or, you know, there's so many things that I've done over the years that if I finish it and I publish it or, you know, it goes to air, then it has the potential to make a difference in someone's life and it can reach a wonderful audience. Whereas if it's in draft mode, because I don't think it's perfect yet and it never goes anywhere, then it's not helping anyone and it weighs down on me. And you're right, if I could be kinder to myself, it would be better.

I think the other thing that I often think about is we've got to distinguish high standards from perfectionism. Like there's nothing wrong with having high standards and with wanting to produce quality work and in believing that you have the capacity to do something useful in the world. So I think wanting to produce high quality work is fantastic.

It's when we get completely paralysed by, you know, we can't put anything out in the world because we're so worried that it's not perfect. And for me, that's always to do with a fear of judgment. You know, I'm worried about who is judging me as being not good enough or not smart enough or whatever it is. And if we can kind of acknowledge that that's what's paralysing us from getting something done, I think that really helps.

Because of course, you know. Like it's never, there is no such thing as perfect, right? It's never going to be perfect. And I think for me, I don't consider myself a perfectionist at all these days. I reckon I used to be.

But the thing that stopped me being a perfectionist was committing every week to both doing a live radio segment that I couldn't take back after it was done and also publishing a blog every week about that radio topic, which I did for five or six years. And because I committed that no matter what happened, I would publish that blog post before I went on air on the radio that morning.

And I just had to get good at saying, "that'll do", you know, "that's fine". It's not perfect, but it's good enough. And I think deadlines like that can sort of be an accidental perfectionist cure. Because if you commit to just doing it, irrespective of whether you think it's really good or not, you get better at going, "Oh well, at least it's out in the world now". You know, that's okay. It's fine.

Michael (00:04:07)

Yeah, exactly. And sometimes you can get other people to help you, right? If you're working on a piece of collaborative work, you can say to other people, like, "Do you think this is ready? Can I click submit?"

And oftentimes getting advice from other people can really help you, you know, with that decision. So you're not necessarily alone. You don't have to be alone in your perfectionism. And even if it's a project that only you are working on, you can still seek feedback, right? What do you think of this piece of work?

Jen (00:04:36)

Gather some cheerleaders around you. Gather some people around you who know that you do good quality work and can remind you that it's good enough and you need to get it out of your life and move on to the next thing.

And if it's not good enough, be really honest with yourself about what the consequences might be. Of course, if there are going to be very serious consequences, maybe hold off on finishing the thing.

But if the worst consequence could be someone notices that a sentence could have been better constructed or maybe you stumbled a bit here or there, I mean, you know, there are more important things in the world to worry about.

Michael (00:05:09)

Yep, yep. You know, you said there before Jen that nothing is perfect, which is almost true.

Jen (00:05:17)

Do tell Michael, what is perfect?

Michael (00:05:21)

I reckon, you know, salted caramel ice cream is perfect. And what you could do is... I'm thinking about being kinder to yourself and maybe treating yourself with your favorite treat, you know, once you let go of that piece of work. That's something that I like to do, so...

Jen (00:05:40)

I love it. And this episode isn't perfect. But I think it's good enough and we should go and get icecream Michael. Let's do it.

Michael (00:05:52)

Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, we'd love you to tell a friend about the podcast or leave us a review. And you can reach out to us on social media.

And we're very excited to announce that we're launching a new newsletter called the ChitChat. Check out the link in the show notes or our posts on Instagram.

And also a big thank you to our production team, Steven Tang and Madeleine Kelly.